Episode 375
The UK’s problems can’t be solved with a sound bite - we need a 40 year strategy
EP 375 - The conversation ranged far and wide with Alex Depledge, CEO of Resi and newly coined “Tech- Sis”. It took in her frustrations that no-one wants to have a long term conversation, how the short term news cycle is killing politics and why increasing polarisation is killing informed debate and damaging society.
She came out to bat for the Labour government in general - we should give them time - and Rachel Reeves in particular for her willingness to stand behind a decision, even if it is unpopular.
She did not come out to bat for bats, people who play the victim and using regulatory sledgehammers to crack walnuts.
If you like your opinions strong and your laughter infectious, listen in.
FACT CORRECTION - Alex stated that the UK Electric Grid energy wastage is at 40% which may have been true at the time of recording. Most recent figures show that it is nearer 10%.
*For Apple Podcast chapters, access them from the menu in the bottom right corner of your player*
Spotify Video Chapters:
00:00 BWB with Alex Depledge MBE
03:29 Alex's Current Role and Responsibilities
04:54 Challenges in the Housing Sector
05:57 Energy Efficiency and Renovation
06:49 Fragmented Construction Industry
16:11 Government Policies and Long-term Solutions
19:21 Labour Party's Approach to Business and Economy
27:57 *Andy's Key Takeaways*
30:34 Regulations and the Role of Bats
34:20 The Impact of Private School Attacks
34:51 Understanding the Worker's Rights Bill
35:13 Probation Periods in Employment
37:11 Planning and Business Efficiency
38:29 The Housing Crisis and Council Incentives
39:22 Environmental Regulations and Development
40:16 The Importance of Company Policies
44:12 Diversity of Thought vs. Quotas
48:49 *Andy's Key Takeaways*
52:31 The Immigration Debate
54:14 Challenges of Modern Employment
58:27 Quickfire - Get To Know Alex
01:05:03 Wrap Up
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Transcript
About 40% of all of our carbon emissions in this country are caused by existing buildings.
Speaker A:That's more than cars and airports.
Speaker B:You've written stuff for Labour, you know, can't you sit down and have grown up conversations with them about what are we doing here?
Speaker A:Honestly, the answers to the problems we have in the UK, they're not even five years, they're not even 10 years, they're 20 and 25 years solutions.
Speaker A:But no one really wants to have that conversation because that's a long term conversation.
Speaker A:The problem is with the news cycle is it's 247 and what that drives then is a government that wants quick wins overall.
Speaker A:The Labour Party, it's not the natural home of business.
Speaker A:They are playing catch up on speed in a weird like, kind of masochistic way.
Speaker A:I sort of want Nigel Farage to have to run the government and then watch him monumentally.
Speaker B:Hi and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.
Speaker B:We're here to help the founders, entrepreneurs, business owners, anyone who wrestles with the job of being in charge.
Speaker B:And if you like what we do, please rate and review us on Spotify and Apple and come say hi on YouTube if you fancy watching us in action.
Speaker B:Links are in the episode description or just search for WBLondon Trump Farage.
Speaker B:Rachel Reeves, our guest this week, is only a fan of one of them, but she suggests that you underestimate them all at your peril.
Speaker B:Alex Dupledge, CEO of Resi, joins us to talk about politics, regulation and why short termism isn't going to solve the UK's problems.
Speaker B:The Conversation ranged far and wide, including why councils should be allowed to raise revenue from building new homes, how everyone's a victim these days and how annoying that is, and the fact that we are now so polarized as a society, it's stopping us from being able to have an intelligent debate, which means society stops advancing.
Speaker B:We also talk a lot about bats and how they are a racket.
Speaker B:I really enjoyed the chat, even if she was sticking up for Rachel Reeves.
Speaker B:And I'll also be sharing my key takeaways from my chat throughout the show.
Speaker B:I am Andy Ory and today we are joined by Alex Dupledge MBE, a renowned tech entrepreneur and keynote speaker.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:Alex, alongside her business partner Jules Coleman, made history by securing the largest VC funding for a solely female owned business at that time.
Speaker B:The company grew rapidly and was acquired for?
Speaker B: million in: Speaker B:Not one to slow down.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B: economy earned her an MBE in: Speaker B:And today Alex is a highly sought after speaker on entrepreneurship and business growth.
Speaker B: 's Startup Scale UP report in: Speaker B:Alex, a very warm welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:Are you tired, Andy?
Speaker B:It's impressive.
Speaker A:I mean, that's awkward.
Speaker A:It's actually 10,000 homes, not 4,000.
Speaker A:But other than that it was all correct and very long.
Speaker A:We need to that down.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, no.
Speaker B:You know, it's good to go on the journey.
Speaker B:There's many bits we could pick up within this.
Speaker B:But maybe let's start with what's Alex up to these days?
Speaker B:What are you up to at the moment, Alex?
Speaker A:Good question.
Speaker A:So still the CEO of Resi, we've done about 10,000 home extensions.
Speaker A:We grew about 40% last year, which was lovely.
Speaker A:So that's all going well.
Speaker A:And then in my spare time, of which there's not a lot, I am also on the board of Persimmon Homes, which is a Footsie 100 house builder.
Speaker A:I think we're about third market cap of about 5.2 billion.
Speaker A:So that's interesting because that's really different to my day job because it's obviously a much bigger company.
Speaker B:And then what was the name of it?
Speaker B:Sorry?
Speaker A:Persimmon.
Speaker B:Persimmon.
Speaker B:How'd you spell it?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker B:I'm an idiot.
Speaker B:Look at me.
Speaker A:That'll become very clearly.
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker A:It's like Berkeley Homes.
Speaker B:Berkeley Homes, we knew about it very well.
Speaker A:Persimmon.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:The reason you don't know it is because Persimmon was bought like, I mean, it's headquartered in York, so it tends to be like Scotland, north of England, East Midlands.
Speaker A:They're not London boys.
Speaker B:The word is quite hard for to picture.
Speaker B:My head is a dyslexic.
Speaker B:I might know if I saw the logo or something.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Green and white.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I don't want to tell you what the famous story is because I'm trying to like get away from that story.
Speaker A:But like it was in the papers a lot at one point.
Speaker B:Google that now.
Speaker A:Yeah, Google it.
Speaker A:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker B:Resi sounds very cool.
Speaker B:So I explain it a little bit better.
Speaker B:An Online platform that has helped 10,000 UK homeowners with renovations and extensions.
Speaker B:So, yeah, tell me, you get architects to come and help you or.
Speaker A:No, no, I mean, look, the crux of it was I did my own extension when I lived in London.
Speaker A:Put a side return on.
Speaker A:Lots of people have done it.
Speaker A:Loft, side infill, rear extension, you know, garden annex, you name it.
Speaker A:Like, the Brits love to extend the homes, mainly because the 26 million homes that we have in this country are not fit for purpose.
Speaker A:Like 19 million of them don't even meet the standard EPC rating.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Well, those are quite tough these days.
Speaker B:They've got tougher and tougher.
Speaker B:You meaning if they were checked today, they wouldn't meet the energy ratings.
Speaker A:I mean, let's be.
Speaker A:I shouldn't really say this, but like EPC is the crudest gauge of whether your home is healthy or not.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it's absolute.
Speaker A:Let's be really honest.
Speaker B:It's not tough.
Speaker A:You mean it's not accurate?
Speaker A:It's nowhere close to being accurate because they don't get into your loft and see what your actual insulation is.
Speaker A:And there's lots of things wrong with it, but it's the best tool we have of diagnosing whether, yeah, whether a house is healthy or not.
Speaker A:And when I say healthy, it's like, you know, is it well ventilated?
Speaker A:Does it leak energy all of the time?
Speaker A:Are you comfortable?
Speaker A:And the answer is, in the uk, like, no.
Speaker A:Our housing stock's pretty terrible.
Speaker A:It's small, it's expensive and it's leaky.
Speaker A:But that's not why I started resi.
Speaker A:I did an extension, realized how painful it is for homeowners that go into it having never done it before, most people never have, and decided that we could make it better because it was, you know, it is and was particularly a very undigitized sector of the economy.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, they always talk about construction, construction being the last like trillion dollar kind of frontier that has been untouched by technology.
Speaker A:And that's very, very true.
Speaker A:So we went into it to try to make the journey easier, but I think really we were also looking to equalize the asymmetry of information between you, the homeowner and 12 or 13 independent parties that'll be involved in extending your home.
Speaker A:So what RESI is essentially is it takes you all the way from having an idea to a completed house project.
Speaker A:And we pretty much employ everybody but the builder.
Speaker A:And the reason for that is since the Second World War, all we've done is, is like disaggregate risk and responsibility down the food chain.
Speaker A:So it used to be that you had building companies that employed everybody and they were solely responsible for whatever they did.
Speaker A:And now it doesn't work that way.
Speaker A:If you, if you think about it, it's like you appoint an architect, they outsource it to a structural engineer, you get a general contractor, they subcontract it to electricians, to bricklayers, to groundsmen, to roo.
Speaker A:And it's a really fragmented, like one or two person industry.
Speaker A:So you as a homeowner, when you're like, oh, you know, we didn't want that wall there, that the builder be like, well, that's what was on the plans.
Speaker A:So you like the architects to blame.
Speaker A:And then you'll say, you know, the architects will be like, well, it's not our fault.
Speaker A:The plans say that the builders just put it in the wrong place.
Speaker A:He didn't lay out.
Speaker B:And how tough you have to be too against builders and people to get them to move things and stuff.
Speaker A:Particularly when you don't know, like, you're not like how you don't know if it costs like £100 to plaster a wall or a thousand pounds.
Speaker A:Like we just don't know.
Speaker A:So that's what RESI went in.
Speaker A:We started to apply technology, lots of data and machine learning to basically build a really efficient technology platform that helps the customer go from A to B in the most efficient and effective way.
Speaker A: the UK we are managing about: Speaker B:Go in and draw your house roughly, can you, and say, oh, I'm thinking of this kind of thing.
Speaker B:Or you go in and you is a marketplace and an architect comes forward or.
Speaker A:No, I employ the architects, they all work for me.
Speaker B:Ah, for Resi.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the reason for that is because mostly when a house goes wrong, like if something in a building project goes wrong, it's gone wrong in the design phase.
Speaker A:So we protect that as much as possible to make sure that the designs are as good and as effective as possible.
Speaker A:So we actually take 3D laser scans.
Speaker A:We create a digital twin of your home so we can see where your pipes are, how thick your walls are and it's a 3D model that you can circulate.
Speaker A:So it means we never need to go back to your home house to measure anything or see what's going on.
Speaker B:You can't see in the walls though.
Speaker B:You don't know where the pipes are.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, the.
Speaker A:What we do with the scanners, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, we have a fairly good.
Speaker A:We take certain measurements, so we'll take heat loss measurements we might take.
Speaker A:You know, we'll look at which way the beams run across the floor and a ceiling.
Speaker A:So we.
Speaker A:We basically get all the information we need, and it's accurate within, like, less than a millimeter.
Speaker A:And then that becomes the basis on which we then draw the new part of the house, submit for planning, and then create the construction drawings that you need to then go off and build your home.
Speaker A:And at that point, we have a partner network that you can select from all vetted and insured and have come and done many, many projects for us that will then go and build the said property.
Speaker A:And we have certain partnerships that get you a heat pump or solar panels or whatever materials you need for the build that ends up being much more effective than if you were sourcing it directly from a builder or yourself through trade accounts.
Speaker B:And you're providing some assurance as well.
Speaker B:Are you.
Speaker B:Or, you know, because you're saying was sort of split out, disaggregated, I think you said, is it.
Speaker B:But you're.
Speaker B:You bring it all together.
Speaker B:I sign up with you.
Speaker B:You will deliver that part, you know, accurately.
Speaker B:And then builders, I find myself.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Well, we've got a partner network of builders that we've worked with over and over again that we make.
Speaker A:We make sure that they are financially solvent on a repeated basis.
Speaker A:We have a.
Speaker A:Like an internal rating that's constantly monitored.
Speaker A:Monitored, and lots of different things affect that, but essentially we make sure they've got the right insurances.
Speaker A:We make sure that they've not gone bankrupt and reopened, you know, under another guise.
Speaker A:We constantly source feedback to make sure that they're living up to that standard, you know, up to the standard that they.
Speaker A:That we need them to.
Speaker A:So essentially we.
Speaker A:We sort of regulate an unregulated market because most of our builders that work for us end up getting about 70 or 80 of all their work through us.
Speaker A:So if you.
Speaker A:Andy, had a problem, you know, Resi can call up your builder.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:Go back and fix this.
Speaker B:Listen, Barry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oi.
Speaker A:So we do find that we end up doing a lot of that kind of mediation because a lot of it is.
Speaker A:Honestly, a lot of it sometimes is miscommunication because you talk in different languages, you know, so what we try and do is make sure that it's.
Speaker A:We can't make the journey amazing because it's impossible to do.
Speaker A:But we make it as painless as possible by being basically the person that goes through the journey with you so you're not on your own.
Speaker B:You said a lot of really important things there.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, as an accountant who's used to accessing companies house constantly, you know, anytime you ever trade with anyone, it amazes me.
Speaker B:People don't just type it into company's house, it's free.
Speaker B:Pull up their accounts.
Speaker B:And that's exactly with a builder, you know, are they solvent, are they making money on each job?
Speaker B:Have they been around a while?
Speaker B:These are the really important metrics, aren't they, that, you know, they seem to deliver jobs, you know, they've been around me, my dear sister had build a drop dead in the middle of a project.
Speaker B:Can you imagine?
Speaker B:That was the worst.
Speaker B:And he had half the money.
Speaker B:I mean another very fascinating thing I find as a tax person is that building work seems to be the last bastion of cash.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Like they've shut everyone else down.
Speaker B:My only thought is HMRC always having an extension done.
Speaker B:So they're like, yeah, well after this next one John, we're gonna go after them.
Speaker B:But let me just like, you know, I mean it's a bit of a side point, but I'm always curious at what time, at what moment is the VAT man or someone gonna go bananas on building, you know.
Speaker A:Well, and this is, I guess this is one of the things I'd call bullshit on.
Speaker A:Like I don't think it's right or fair that the big, I mean I sit on a board so you know, I've got to be careful what I say here.
Speaker A:But you know, we build new houses and they're not, they're, they're 0 or 5% VATable.
Speaker A:So why is it I'm paying 25% of?
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:What is, is it 20% VAT?
Speaker B:20%, but yeah, change of use or a new, a new property is less.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And if it's uninhabited, like you know, you get it for zero.
Speaker B:So there's different reliefs, it's complicated.
Speaker A:But for someone who wants to improve their home, they have to pay 20 VAT.
Speaker A:And I don't think that's fine.
Speaker A:The reason I don't think it's fair is like in a world where we have 26 million homes, 90 million of them don't reach an EPC rating of C.
Speaker A:And the government actively wants us to put airsource heat pumps in to put solar panels on to upgrade the materials of a home.
Speaker A:The best time to do that is when you're renovating because otherwise you just unpicking a home for no reason.
Speaker A:So for me, renovation is the gateway to retrofit.
Speaker A:You do the two at once.
Speaker A:So we should be seeing renovations, attracting attractive rates of VAT to encourage great ideas.
Speaker B:If they improve their homes.
Speaker B:If they improve their homes.
Speaker B:I mean, the only thing I'd say is, as I was looking extension that me and the wife just can't face doing with two young kids running around the home.
Speaker B:But I then looked into the whole heat pump.
Speaker B:The, the cost for.
Speaker B:Because you have to put a heat pump.
Speaker B:But what they then tell you is you have to need underfloor heating.
Speaker B:You need everything really like hermetically sealed.
Speaker B:You need to get incredibly efficient.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then at the end of that, that, that estimate was as much as the, the entire extension was going to cost.
Speaker B:It was like 60 grand each or something.
Speaker B:I was like, what?
Speaker B:And then I said, oh, but it'll save me lots of money.
Speaker B:And that was the funniest bit.
Speaker B:The conversation said, actually, you'll probably put your bills up.
Speaker B:And I was like, what the hell?
Speaker B:Like, you know, I.
Speaker B:What am I doing here?
Speaker B:But I agree they could at least incentivize saying, well, if you are going to do all of that, we'll give you the zero rate or something, you know.
Speaker A:Well, and I think the little unknown fact is, so if you do a blower door test.
Speaker A:So a blower door test is where you seal up all the windows and the vents in a house and you stick a fan, a reverse fan, right.
Speaker A:So it's sucking air out of your house.
Speaker A:It'll give you like a heat loss factor now.
Speaker A:So in a new build, they have to have a heat loss factor of less than 5.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it's got to be 5 or below in like the average house in the UK is 14, which essentially means there's a gentle breeze blowing through your house.
Speaker B:That's the way I like it.
Speaker A:Nice and airy.
Speaker B:Well, you know, we have such a mild climate.
Speaker B:I mean, people always think we're cold, but actually.
Speaker B:And it's getting more extreme.
Speaker B:But traditionally it's, you know, you could say it's never too hot, it's never too cold.
Speaker B:It's just kind of, you know, we have that thing in the UK domain, it's kind of always 10 degrees.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:And you know, there's long period.
Speaker B:I mean, there's not many countries that we go from what, April to October, everyone turns the heating on and that's it.
Speaker B:It's just 20 degrees in your home.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:I guess the difference is, I don't know if you know this, but about 40% of all of our carbon emissions in this country are caused by, by existing buildings.
Speaker A:That's more than cars and airports, planes.
Speaker A:So I love that we're having this debate about Heathrow and Gatwick runways when they're like, oh, but the air, the climate.
Speaker A:And I'm like, well mate, honestly, it's nothing compared to the homes that we have that are just spewing carbon out because for loss of energy.
Speaker A:So, so when you're like, let's put a heat pump in, realistically, unless you're willing to make your house a lot less breezy and get the heat loss down to around a seven or an eight, you're gonna lose money on that heat pump.
Speaker A:It's gonna be more expensive than putting a new gas boiler in.
Speaker A:So this is where I get slightly annoyed with kind of the, you know, the quangos and the government that are like, well, we need to install 600, 000 air source heat pumps and here's a, you know, a tariff to help you do that because it's expensive.
Speaker A:They're like 11, 12 grand.
Speaker A:But what they're not factoring in is you can do that and you could probably put your, your underfloor heating in and get the air pump in there and your bill will go up because you'll be losing heat, it won't be as inefficient, it's not going to contribute to reducing carbon going into the environment.
Speaker A:So there just needs to be a lot more education about what it takes to actually improve the existing housing stock.
Speaker A:If we're really serious about saving money on our energy costs and being more, you know, more efficient, why can't we.
Speaker B:Why are we getting so many of these topics so wr?
Speaker B:I mean for me I find it's a lot about, there's a lot of nuance and people just want really simple answers.
Speaker B:Get a heat pump, you know, it's like that's the news story.
Speaker B:It's like there's no sort of, you know, I have to say my experience of like someone starting telling me it was 60 grand to just do half my house, you know, and then my bills go up anyway.
Speaker B:You're kind of like, well who's going to, no one's going to do that, you know.
Speaker B:And I went in thinking I'll just get a heat pump and pay a bit more for my boiler or something like that.
Speaker B:Why aren't we having a more sensible conversation?
Speaker B:You know, you look like you're frustrated, sort of trying, trying to, you know, you're sitting on a footsie company and stuff.
Speaker B:Look, you've written stuff for labor, you know, can't you sit down and have grown up conversations with them about, you know, what are we doing here or something?
Speaker A:I think it's because the answers are not easy and they're pretty hard.
Speaker A:Like, you know, you, if you take it even further back than that, you know, we lose about 40 of all the energy that we generate on the national grid because it's so old and it just leaks energy everywhere.
Speaker A:So we don't even have the capacity to, to, to pump the data centers that are going to generate all of these AI companies.
Speaker A:We don't have the energy, the electricity to drive all of these heat pumps.
Speaker A:But no one really wants to have that conversation because that's a long term conversation.
Speaker A:That is a strategy for the next 30 or 40 years.
Speaker A:What do we do first in sequence in order to make all of these things work?
Speaker A:And no one really wants to do that because the problem is with the news cycle is it's 247 and what that drives then is a government that wants quick win wins and they're all as bad as each other.
Speaker A:Everybody wants to be able to stand in front of their other mps or in front of like, you know, Radio 4 and say this is what I've done in the last six months.
Speaker A:And honestly, the answers to the problems we have in the UK, they're not even five years, they're not even 10 years, they're 20 and 25 years solutions.
Speaker A:And until you start telling a story about that, that you and I can understand, we take the pin now because it's jammed tomorrow.
Speaker A:And this is what the jam is and this is how we get there.
Speaker A:And this is the story you're singing.
Speaker B:For my hymn book.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:People then say, well, no one to get elected on that.
Speaker B:But I'm like, really?
Speaker B:Can't someone actually stand up like a grown up and then no one have the time to listen to it.
Speaker B:They'll chop up the talk and they'll put it on all the wrong news outlets and misplace what you're saying.
Speaker B:But I'm with you.
Speaker B:Why can't someone say we have some, you know, here's my 20 year plan.
Speaker B:Yeah, and it's going to get worse.
Speaker B:I mean, in a way I haven't.
Speaker B:Aren't labor trying to do that at the moment?
Speaker B:I mean my entrepreneurial friends are so complete.
Speaker B:Most of them just hate the narrative of being called non workers and are just made to feel very, very unvalued here.
Speaker B:I mean, that stat that I thought was just, just blow me away.
Speaker B:53% of people take more out the system than they put in.
Speaker B:And the top 1% pay 30 of our tax.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it's the 1% we're all angry with because they're the non workers.
Speaker B:You know, it's like the narrative's not good.
Speaker B:So, you know, so many are leaving if they can, that.
Speaker B:That sort of talent.
Speaker B:But, you know, as that aside, the bit I'm more, you know, understanding of is they seem to be trying to say we've got to do growth.
Speaker B:Okay, Growth is important, you know, and, you know, they're trying to sort of.
Speaker B:They think, well, we've got two terms here, hopefully.
Speaker B:I mean, God knows whether they knows, but, you know, and they're trying to say we're here for the long term.
Speaker B:It's a little bit more like that, maybe.
Speaker A:So, you know, I don't know many of the Labour people, like many of the Labour MPs, other than what you see on radio and television.
Speaker A:But I do know Rachel and, you know, I've had a lot of flack for supporting Rachel because, you know, she did come in and like, sort of savagely go out attack business.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And ask business to carry the cannon.
Speaker A:She knows that.
Speaker A:But I guess the reason I continue to support her is, like, quite frankly, I don't think there's anybody else out there.
Speaker A:In a weird, like, kind of masochistic way, I sort of want Nigel Farage to have to run the government and then watch him monumentally up.
Speaker B:Well, it's kind.
Speaker B:It's kind of the only way you sort it out.
Speaker B:I mean, I.
Speaker B:I feel at the moment, though, the irony is the people in charge are doing such a bad job that someone mad is as good as someone bad, you know, And I.
Speaker A:Think that's where we've got to.
Speaker A:With Trump.
Speaker B:Right, yeah, that's Trump.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Exactly that.
Speaker B:And chaos is opportunity.
Speaker B:So entrepreneurs are kind of like, okay, you're going to create chaos.
Speaker B:Let me watch what happens.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:And I mean, we can, we can.
Speaker A:But just on the Rachel piece, the reason that I am, I still believe is because she's smart and she does listen and she genuinely really believes that she can solve this.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And the reason that I believe that she can, if we help her get the right narrative and the right strategies, is because she's not afraid to take a difficult decision and then stand behind it.
Speaker A:And can you remember the last time you saw a politician do that in the face of.
Speaker A:Of people telling you you've got it wrong, that you know, that it's not good enough, that you're not good enough, that you know all the shit that they get, she stands the ground.
Speaker A:And actually it reminds me of like the pre Cameron era when, you know, politicians were a bit more states.
Speaker B:Well, John Major, Margaret Thatcher.
Speaker B:I was thinking of people who typed in the world.
Speaker A:I mean, and how wistful are we for those sorts of people now?
Speaker A:You know, the Ken Clarks of the world, the Paddy Ashdowns.
Speaker B:Other than Churchill or something, John Major's the most.
Speaker B:You know, everyone sort of harks back to good old John, you know, back to basics, you know, lovely John.
Speaker A:And then he came out in corvid and spoke sense and we all went, oh, why did we get rid of him?
Speaker B:Oh, he's lovely.
Speaker B:Apparently in person he's really charismatic and hilarious.
Speaker A:I can imagine.
Speaker A:Theresa May is.
Speaker A:Theresa May is absolutely lovely.
Speaker A:And you know, she got a real bum deal in.
Speaker A:I mean, I don't think she played a great hand, but she did get a bum deal.
Speaker B:She had a vision, I think.
Speaker B:Maybe, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I mean.
Speaker A:And I think that's what's been really interesting.
Speaker A:Watching labor in this first six months already, people calling for Rachel's head just like, this is not the Conservatives old, where we just keep chopping and changing.
Speaker B:My issue with the Rachel Reeves approach is, well, one issue is there's no one in the cabinet who's ever been in business.
Speaker B:That scares the shit out of me.
Speaker A:Also a problem.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Number two is I feel like she understands.
Speaker B:She, she, she's thinking about the UK in terms of large business or public businesses.
Speaker B:And actually that stat, I don't know if you've ever heard it, it's absolutely mind blowing.
Speaker B: The: Speaker B:You just think about that for a while.
Speaker B:That's 0.06% of companies and that's 250 people.
Speaker B:That's not even big, you know, that's just ish.
Speaker B:We're almost that size.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:And then what you have is that the large businesses get help from the tax man, they get to talk to the government and they think about that, that really we're a nation of shopkeeper entrepreneurs, SME.
Speaker B:So a bit like when they announced, oh, we're going to Build a supercomputer.
Speaker B:The same day they announced that one of my most talented clients, who's Australian, British, American, you know, he unbelievable.
Speaker B:And he's one of the leading lights in this area.
Speaker B:He's leaving, you know, because he doesn't want to get caught in 10 years inheritance tax.
Speaker B:And people might say, well he should be more patriotic.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, he's from overseas basically, you know, it's just, it's for him, he's not bothered where he lives.
Speaker B:He just looks for countries he can live with the right thing and his company will slowly go there.
Speaker B:He's already built half these things.
Speaker B:You know, if you get that entrepreneur community humming, you know, then that drives so much growth.
Speaker B:So I feel the narrative is a bit like there's poor people down here and then there's the big companies.
Speaker B:And actually the truth is everyone's here and it's incredibly SME this country.
Speaker B:And I just think that's a bit, she's misstepping on she.
Speaker B:But then you say, well why don't they have a voice in her ear?
Speaker B:Well, they're very fragmented, you know, entrepreneurs don't have any time to talk, do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:So I don't know.
Speaker B:There are sadly, you know, a lot of talented people have been leaving.
Speaker B:But when I really get down to, it's not the ni is hurting people, the capital sort of, all of that is, is not good.
Speaker B:But it's really this narrative of sort of you are a non worker, it's your fault, you know, we're going to tax you and we need a country that, that and this is the deepest issue and I think it's a huge problem is we need to like be more comfortable with money, more celebratory of those who are successful.
Speaker B:Less tall Poppy syndrome.
Speaker B:As I, I can't in good consciousness a British person go there.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:It's, it's a problem for us, you know.
Speaker A:No, and I look and I, I totally agree and I think if Ra sitting here, she'd agree with you too.
Speaker B:Oh wow.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I mean last Wednesday she had a breakfast for 15 entrepreneurs that went in there.
Speaker A:I helped her select some of the people to go in there.
Speaker A:Took some controversial people in there that I knew would kind of be very frank.
Speaker A:She totally gets it.
Speaker A:But she's one person in a cabinet.
Speaker A:And I think actually the overall, the Labour Party, it's not the natural home of business.
Speaker A:They are playing catch up on speed, do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:And I think they are starting to seek some of that input out.
Speaker A:And the last thing I'll saying their defense, because like, honestly I, I mean I'm in the tech community.
Speaker A:Like, I get it from, I get a full barrel from all of my friends, right?
Speaker A:Because they're just like, what are they doing for us?
Speaker A:And we are the most important part of the economy.
Speaker B:Don't squeeze us.
Speaker A:Which I totally get lower tax, get.
Speaker B:Growth going, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:And I say two things.
Speaker A:Sim.
Speaker A:Firstly, you know, lots of other comp countries are having to do the exact same thing.
Speaker A:I mean, Spain is now trying to ban expats buying Spanish houses.
Speaker A:The golden visa from Portugal gone away.
Speaker A:So these places where we were all like, well, we're going to flee and go over there, but they are shutting down because everyone in the western world is experiencing the same problem, which is low productivity, high inflation, not enough houses, not enough skilled workforce.
Speaker A:So it's not just the uk.
Speaker A:So we are in that sense going through the same sort of thing.
Speaker A:You know, the real bummer in all of this is like America's like kicking ass at the minute, right?
Speaker A:Let's see where that goes.
Speaker A:But, so I don't, I don't think there's as many attractive places for us to go to.
Speaker B:You know, first of all, it's really nice to know someone who knows Rachel Reeves and it's really nice to hear what you said and you defend her.
Speaker B:Because I am really struggling with what, what, what, what, what she's coming up with.
Speaker B:I'm just, I'm just, my head's in my hands.
Speaker B:Just like, please, if you want growth, work out how to get entrepreneurs flying.
Speaker B:You know, it's factually proved globally.
Speaker B:If you lower corporation tax, you get more returns.
Speaker B:If, you know, people just start coming back here, create an environment for people to fly.
Speaker B:You know, remove as many taxes before profit, go for it.
Speaker B:You know, Dubai offers that.
Speaker B:And if I wouldn't move there because I'm a libertarian, it's just not my voice vibe.
Speaker B:But the one thing that I would say, and you, you're clearly alluding, is the people wanting to leave, I then say, well, where are you going to go?
Speaker B:Yeah, where are you going to go?
Speaker B:Because you could go to Dubai.
Speaker B:Do you want to go to bike?
Speaker B:Well, you know this.
Speaker B:It's like for all the criticism, we still live in the most liberal country I can find.
Speaker B:London's still an incredible city with unarmed police.
Speaker B:You know this.
Speaker B:But you try and answer that question.
Speaker B:You know, actually, do you know what a couple have said to me this week, I'm going to America.
Speaker B:You know, they find that exciting, what's going on over there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think it probably will go gangbusters.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of people, most of friends, who are incredibly left wing and just on social media going nuts about Trump.
Speaker B:They would struggle to understand that.
Speaker B:They'd just be like spitting blood.
Speaker B:But I'd be like, business people will look for opportunity and environments, you know, and they'll go, as it were.
Speaker A:No, no, I, I think you're right.
Speaker A:And I mean, it's going to be really, I think from a.
Speaker A:I mean, if we weren't having to live through it, it'd be even more enjoyable and more intriguing to see exactly what's going to happen because, I mean, you know, if he slaps loads of tariffs everywhere, like, I, I just.
Speaker A:Where does that go?
Speaker A:Because I, I don't, I don't think that ends up in a good place for.
Speaker A:It's going to be interesting to watch it unfold.
Speaker A:The only thing that scares me about what's going on is because not all Trump's policies are stupid.
Speaker A:Actually, a lot of them are quite common.
Speaker A:They're actually not bad.
Speaker A:It's just they're packaged up with someone who looks slightly deranged, but you realize he's not.
Speaker A:He's very clever and very calculated.
Speaker A:But the thing that bothers me is the kind of erosion of the democratic process and the amount of power that's being concentrated amongst some very wealthy and let's be really honest, men.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There was no tax tech.
Speaker A:What's the equivalent of a tech bra in, like, a woman?
Speaker B:Texas.
Speaker A:Texas.
Speaker B:Which is a place.
Speaker A:And let's, let's coin that I'm off to Texas to be a Texas bitch.
Speaker B:Austin, here I come, man.
Speaker A:In it.
Speaker B:Right, then.
Speaker B:So what have been my key takeaways so far?
Speaker B:Let's break them down.
Speaker B:Number one, the UK housing crisis.
Speaker B:The housing crisis wasn't a failure.
Speaker B:It was and still is.
Speaker B:The system working as designed.
Speaker B:Councils have no real incentive to build more homes, keeping supply low and prices high.
Speaker B:That's why nothing has really changed.
Speaker B:Number two, renovation and energy efficiency.
Speaker B:Making homes greener should have been easy, but instead it was taxed at 20%.
Speaker B:With 19 million homes failing energy standards, government policy has made sustainability harder, not easier.
Speaker B:Number three, buildings and carbon emissions.
Speaker B:The government have focused so much on transport emissions as culprits, when buildings have been the real issue, responsible for 40% of the UK's carbon footprint, yet policies have barely touched them.
Speaker B:Number four, the National Grid's energy waste.
Speaker B:The UK's energy grid is so outdated, we lose 40% of our energy through waste, even before it reaches our homes.
Speaker B:No wonder sustainable solutions struggled.
Speaker B:Half of what we produce just disappears into thin air.
Speaker B:Number five, Labour's tax hikes on entrepreneurs.
Speaker B:Labour's latest budget and policies hit entrepreneurs and business owners hard, raising taxes and squeezing investment.
Speaker B:Higher costs means fewer jobs, less innovation and a weaker economy.
Speaker B:Punishing business isn't the way to drive growth.
Speaker B:Do labor really know what they're talking about when it comes to economic growth?
Speaker B:Growth.
Speaker B:More key takeaways coming up later.
Speaker B:Now, back to the chat.
Speaker A:We've gone slightly off topic because I did.
Speaker A:There's one other thing, you know, I said that, like where they're gonna go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The other thing that I think is really interesting is that.
Speaker A:So obviously I give a lot of a.
Speaker A:About planning, right?
Speaker A:And I don't think I.
Speaker A:I don't think that labor is wholly on the money here with what they're going to do.
Speaker A:And if, if I was in charge, I have a whole blueprint.
Speaker A:They can call me if they want it, right?
Speaker A:But they're tackling planning in a way that The Tories had 14 years and the exact same resources and the exact same knowledge of everything that was wrong in the planning system.
Speaker A:And they did fuck all, basically.
Speaker A:Now they're going after it slightly in the wrong way, but they're going after it.
Speaker A:The second thing Rachel's done and she's going after the regulators and I like that.
Speaker B:I'm reading that in the newspaper and I'm going, go on.
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll stop over regulating, you know.
Speaker B:Yes, we don't wanna lose babies, arms and mills.
Speaker B:But, you know, it's like, let's have a limit to this.
Speaker A:I mean, it's complete.
Speaker A:Like there are so many daft regulations, like just in housing alone, like bats.
Speaker A:I mean, they call me Batwoman at work because I'm obsessed with bats.
Speaker B:This one's bat.
Speaker B:Not British American Tobacco, clearly.
Speaker B:What's the bat?
Speaker A:The bloody animal animal.
Speaker A:Yeah, the bats.
Speaker B:Because what.
Speaker B:Any kind of endangered.
Speaker B:And they were going to build that huge thing in Mala, They've just said, oh, it's too much traffic.
Speaker A:Well, and did you see the 100 million they spent on a bat tunnel?
Speaker A:And the thing is with bats, right, there's about 18 species.
Speaker A:Only nine of them, them are actually endangered.
Speaker A:The others are like breeding like rabbits.
Speaker A:They're fine.
Speaker A:They don't do any.
Speaker A:They don't delineate between what bats you Might have.
Speaker A:And if you do remove whatever the bat is living in and put a bat hotel in, they never come back and live in that hotel.
Speaker A:So we're spending all this money and all this time on bats.
Speaker A:Oh, and all the other thing is you can only test them between the important.
Speaker A:For anyone thinking about this, between May and September.
Speaker A:So if you suddenly find that, you know, in September, you do your bat one survey and go, we.
Speaker A:And this is the other thing, it's a racket because all of these, all of these companies that come and see if you've got bats, they go, ooh, we don't think you've got bats.
Speaker A:But we can't be 100% sure.
Speaker A:So we need to do the second test.
Speaker A:Right, and the first test is a couple of hundred second test a couple of thousand, because the little man in his anorak has to sit on his buffet watching your building to see if bats are flying in and out overnight.
Speaker B:What is wrong with us?
Speaker B:This is madness.
Speaker A:And you can only do that between May and September.
Speaker A:So if you find this out in September, you gotta wait till May to do your bat thing before you can start building.
Speaker A:So you can.
Speaker B:I'd be delighted.
Speaker B:How has this madness got to it?
Speaker A:Right, so this is, I mean, it's.
Speaker B:Just, it's unbelievable, isn't it?
Speaker A:You know, But I just think it's.
Speaker A:Well, it's the same the world over and it's not just the uk.
Speaker A:A good idea is often taken to the nth degree and that's that.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:Then it becomes a tick box exercise.
Speaker A:It's not delivering value on either side.
Speaker A:It's the same with ESG and it's the same with DNI initiatives.
Speaker A:Like, we can get onto them if you want to, but there's a lot.
Speaker A:I think that the sentiment can be right, but the execution gets it wrong and people become overzealous.
Speaker A:So I think the fact that we're going into the regulators and saying, one, we've got too many and you're overlapping and driving up the costs for business to do business and slowing everything down.
Speaker A:But second of all, we've over regulated and we need to.
Speaker A:And I'm really glad after, because after Grandfell there was this big movement around.
Speaker A:Well, Grenville happened because under the Cameron government we got rid of all these regulations and that's not why Grenville happened.
Speaker A:I've, you know, I've, I've had the Grenfell report and all, everything that's come down from it and it's really clear that Grenfell happened and lots of things went wrong.
Speaker A:Lots of things.
Speaker A:And it was an absolute travesty.
Speaker A:But the major cause was the fire brigade telling people to stay in their homes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which would never happen again.
Speaker A:So what I'm really glad about is that the Labour government hasn't looked at that and been afraid to tread where it's with trepidation into an area where you're saying, well, you're gonna endanger people's lives.
Speaker A:And like you said, babies, arms in factories.
Speaker A:That's not what anyone's trying to do.
Speaker A:What people are trying to do is have the right regulation in the right measure that allows both safety and provides security, but also lets us get on and do some stuff.
Speaker A:So I think when you say, like, why should we believe in this government and give them a chance, it's that they've been out for 14 years.
Speaker A:They're not gonna get it right first time.
Speaker A:They've only been in for six months.
Speaker A:They're inexperienced.
Speaker A:We need to give them a chance.
Speaker A:But a lot of the noises that they're making are correct.
Speaker A:But I am with you.
Speaker A:I'd love it if we got some people around the cabinet table that actually run a business.
Speaker B:Just not just, let's not do Alan.
Speaker A:Sug, you know, not the same old tired people.
Speaker A:Let's get some fresh blood in there.
Speaker B:Isn't that you like someone, you know, you.
Speaker B:You sound like you get it.
Speaker B:Get some freaking people around the.
Speaker B:Because that's what concerns you.
Speaker B:And you're like, what, what, what did they just say they're doing that's going to have the opposite effect of what they're trying to do.
Speaker A:It's like the workers bill.
Speaker A:And I've been very.
Speaker B:Workers bill, please.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:I mean, it's, It's.
Speaker B:Well, you don't need me to preach into the choir, but I'm just like, you will get the opposite effect of what you think you're gonna get.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:It's irritating the crap out of me because.
Speaker B:Bit like only 6% go to private school.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Let's just attack private schools.
Speaker B:And everyone's like, yeah.
Speaker B:And it's like, you know, the workers bit is like, yeah, anyone who's never been an employer in charge, I think, yeah, good.
Speaker B:More rights, more protection, more money for me.
Speaker B:This is an international competition for business.
Speaker B:We need the best running, humming, busy, you know, I mean, please tell me it's not going to happen.
Speaker B:Please.
Speaker A:Oh, No, I think they're like, I mean it's a bit like the VAT on schools.
Speaker A:I think there are just some sacred cows for the Labor Party and, and the Workers Rights bill is one of them.
Speaker A:So I just want it to be as watered down as possible because I think what they're missing, so I think they fundamentally also don't understand the difference between your probation period and the two year window.
Speaker A:Because actually it's quite hilarious that what they're proposing is that you're on probation for nine months.
Speaker A:Like not a month, nine months.
Speaker A:And you're like, well, at the minute you're on probation for like a month or whatever it is.
Speaker A:And then you go into the two year window where you relatively, you know, you've got the safety of your job, but for an employer you've de risk the, you de.
Speaker A:Risk the employee.
Speaker A:And what they're trying to do is, is basically make you feel more vulnerable for nine months because you're still in probation.
Speaker A:So you can be gotten rid of within what, a week for nine months.
Speaker A:That's more insecure.
Speaker B:Just to explain to people, because it is really confusing, is that you've got two years to fire without reason.
Speaker B:So you can end someone's employment and you don't have to give as long.
Speaker A:As you're not discriminated for, religion, et.
Speaker B:Cetera, done sexual harassment or it's not some messed up thing.
Speaker A:I call it the isms.
Speaker A:As long as it's not isms, you can, you're good.
Speaker A:Yeah, you can dismiss.
Speaker B:And it's very effective because the reality is, you know, a year, certainly for my overseas clients, they appreciate more than a year, but you know, it takes a while to work out whether someone's any good.
Speaker B:You gotta train them, you gotta do this.
Speaker B:And you know, it gives you a chance to say, do you know what?
Speaker B:It's not working out.
Speaker B:And you can have a grown up conversation about it.
Speaker B:But then you have a concept of probation.
Speaker B:And probation normally means a period of which you're gonna get very little notice pay.
Speaker B:Like legally, it's a week.
Speaker A:It's a week.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So during your probation, which you can set.
Speaker B:And actually there's a funny thing that happens.
Speaker B:People's probation ends and they start behaving badly and you're like, oh, that was good to see.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You were just pretending.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So now you're fired.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:You know, because you're not very good at your job, you know, and there's this, this uncomfortableness in that, isn't there?
Speaker B:That there's this sort of.
Speaker B:People don't want to be told they're not good at something.
Speaker B:But look, I, I think these things are beneficial if you're not.
Speaker B:If this is a high performing business and it doesn't work for you.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:I guess the uncomfortableness is almost that some people are more, more able than.
Speaker B:Than others.
Speaker B:You said.
Speaker B:I'm loving this conversation.
Speaker B:You're speaking so much sense, it's great.
Speaker A:I think you and I were really enjoying it.
Speaker A:I'm not sure your listeners are going to be like, what are these people talking about?
Speaker A:I thought this was about business they've been rabbiting on about.
Speaker B:This is about business.
Speaker B:Well, let's deal with planning because planning is about business because I think you can make a really good point that we could talk about taxing people more all day.
Speaker B:If you want growth, create efficiency, you know, remove five years for planning or whatever.
Speaker A:Well, it's not even that.
Speaker A:So like the, the reason.
Speaker A:So look, we used to build a lot, right?
Speaker A:We built a lot right up until the 2nd and then after the 2nd World War.
Speaker A:And I'm going to get this completely wrong and I should know it because it's my industry.
Speaker A: hink that's what it's called,: Speaker A:And they'd be like, yeah, all right.
Speaker A:It's going to cost you this much in like, almost like a tax, like a levy.
Speaker A:And that goes the coffers of, you know, Runnymede Council.
Speaker A:And Runnymede had its own income then, right?
Speaker A:Well, we got rid of that and then we put all of these limitations.
Speaker A:Conditions are.
Speaker A:So there's no incentives at all, there's only sticks to get councils to build.
Speaker A:And meanwhile, guess who councils have got?
Speaker A:Residents who don't want you to build and the residents don't want you to build because it's going to devalue their house or block their, like, view or whatever and they don't see any benefit from it because the money doesn't go into the council to improve the area or provide better services.
Speaker A:So we've basically done away with this, this, the whole incentive mechanism around building and that's why we up build.
Speaker A:So you've either got two options, right?
Speaker A:You can't keep telling councils, this is your target, go and build it, because it just won't work.
Speaker A:So you either centralize the whole bloody law right right up.
Speaker A:And you almost take the best part of devolution, which has been to devolve housing power down to the localist level, and you put that back into central, because then it's up to you when you.
Speaker A:You plan the whole country, which I don't think anyone wants, or you need to put the incentives back in there, like we need.
Speaker A:We need councils to be able to raise revenue from building, because guess what?
Speaker A:They ain't got any money.
Speaker A:And guess what?
Speaker A:They'd start building.
Speaker B:Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker B:Gosh, you got to wonder why.
Speaker B:But who knows in the past, what are they going to do and what do you think they're going to.
Speaker B:They think they should do?
Speaker A:I mean, they're using a lot.
Speaker A:I think, to me, they're using a lot of stick and it will be somewhat successful.
Speaker A:And you've seen that, like, you know, we've seen a lot more planning applications go through.
Speaker A:They're also looking at the kind of, you know, nutrients bill and the water bill and all of these different, different, like, environmental levies that have gone in over the recent years.
Speaker A:They're looking at, like, how sensible are they, which bits should be repealed to get things moving quicker.
Speaker A:Bats included, one hopes.
Speaker A:Angela Rayner, if you're listening, sort out the bats or I will sort them out.
Speaker B:You just want what did.
Speaker B:Why I reacted to.
Speaker B:No, I don't care about bats.
Speaker B:But how did that become legislation that, you know, there must be thousands of species, do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:It's the same with news.
Speaker B:I might get that across the line, like a couple.
Speaker A:Because I do think there have been instances where we've had really shoddy developments and people haven't been contributing the right amount of money into the local communities to make sure they've got the services and all the rest of it.
Speaker A:And we've probably had some pretty damaging environmental orders, but it's a bit like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Speaker A:That's what we keep doing.
Speaker A:And I just think we just need to have a little bit more common sense.
Speaker A:And it's the same, like, I'm a bit of an alternative employer, right?
Speaker A:Cause I hate policies.
Speaker A:And the reason I hate policies is not because.
Speaker A:And I don't want to do the right thing by my employees, but it's just that, like, if you put a policy in, everyone thinks it's a right and an entitlement and then they forget they need to earn it.
Speaker A:So, like at Resi, can you go and have a sabbatical Hundred percent.
Speaker A:Come to me.
Speaker A:If you're a good employee, you turn up, you do your work, you're dedicated, you want to be there, and you're a good employee.
Speaker A:And you turn around and go, I really want to go to the Galapagos for, like, six weeks.
Speaker A:Can I go?
Speaker A:We'll find a way to make it work.
Speaker A:If you're not a good employee, and I'm not impressed.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I'm not going to grant you that.
Speaker A:If I legislate that into our policies, and there's lots of other, you know, other ideas that not just holidays, it can be lots, like maternity leave.
Speaker A:I've put my, like, bare basics that I can afford, which is like four months for women.
Speaker A:And I think it's like two months full pay, two or three months for men.
Speaker A:Because I try to equalize it.
Speaker A:Because I think that men need to, like, stay at home and do some stuff with kids.
Speaker B:Well, it's a bit like, why do people learn more than that?
Speaker B:So that people don't like the idea that one person's better than the other.
Speaker B:But I would agree so much.
Speaker B:In fact, something that took me a long time to understand as an angry young, young man.
Speaker B:But, you know, for my old man and granddad, it's like, have a really tough employment contract and be a nice boss.
Speaker B:Yes, it's that, you know, because it's because if you're dealing with the.
Speaker B:There's no other word for it, who's coming for you.
Speaker B:You need a strong contract to protect yourself.
Speaker B:But if they're good people, like you say, and they do their job, what do you want?
Speaker B:What do you need?
Speaker B:Let me look after you.
Speaker B:I'm here.
Speaker A:You might be flexible with what you can offer them.
Speaker B:I think really what you're saying is you.
Speaker B:You get.
Speaker B:You get back what you.
Speaker A:But, like, I just think.
Speaker A:I genuinely think that we have gone so badly awry in this country of raising young adults because we've raised them to feel that they're entitled to something.
Speaker A:And this is not about kids with money.
Speaker A:This is, like, right the way up.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:And I say to kids all the time, you can decide, you can either work for minimum wage, 50 hours a week, or you can work 50 hours a week and get fairly renumerated.
Speaker A:And the difference between two of those is how much effort you put in.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not where you come from or what do ° you do.
Speaker A:Because I.
Speaker A:I mean, people always ask.
Speaker A:I do a lot of hiring at Resi.
Speaker A:And when people always ask me that, particularly if they get the CEO because it's very, really exciting, isn't it?
Speaker A:I've got the CEO of me interview.
Speaker A:They either shit themselves and like really flunk it.
Speaker A:But when they get to questions, it's always like, what are you, what are you looking for in an employee?
Speaker A:And I say the same thing every single time.
Speaker A:I don't care where you went to school, I don't care how much education you've got.
Speaker A:I don't even care if you your technically the best or not.
Speaker A:I care.
Speaker A:Are you curious?
Speaker A:Are you coachable and do you want to win?
Speaker A:Are you going to be a team player when you get into resi and are you going to give it everything?
Speaker A:Because as long as you have those attributes, I can give you everything else, but I can't.
Speaker A:But I can't change your attitude.
Speaker B:Yeah, attitude, not your aptitude determines your altitude is the old phrase.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, I mean that.
Speaker A:Is a tongue twister, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, tongue twister.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:There's another anecdotal experience in my life is.
Speaker B:And I'm quite strict on this now, it's probably more amongst my friends and stuff if someone's complaining to me about something or something and they're not trying hard at it.
Speaker B:I just think you haven't got.
Speaker B:I don't care what the job is, you're using a mop, whatever.
Speaker B:You know, if you're saying, oh, it's not fair and then you're like, but hang on mate, you know, you're not turning up on time and you're not really trying and it's like if you're busting your ass and you're doing your best, you know, tell me, you know what I mean, tell me that it's, you know, you're capable of more or do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:That it's not fair.
Speaker B:But I think that it's.
Speaker B:There's something in that.
Speaker B:The people who tend to complain tend to be the people who aren't putting the effort in.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:But they're the victims because it's always somebody else's fault.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's not me and I have the same issue.
Speaker A:Like if you came into a meeting with me and brought me a load of problems but didn't bring a solution to go with those problems or some ideas about how to fix those problems, I just have you to leave.
Speaker B:What about die then?
Speaker B:Where do you feel on that?
Speaker B:That's a complicated little.
Speaker A:I mean, I Think most of it's.
Speaker B:I, I love you, Alex.
Speaker B:You're brilliant.
Speaker B:You know, you.
Speaker B:You've got to have the balls to say these things.
Speaker B:People go mental at you.
Speaker A:You know, I think it's also slightly easier for me because I'm a woman, right?
Speaker A:So I think I get less.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I fit as a man.
Speaker A:You can't say that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I think you, you know, cancel.
Speaker A:Culture rages, right?
Speaker A:But the reason I think DNI is, is because.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:And this is like, I've been saying this before President Trump came along, so I'm definitely.
Speaker A:Do not align me with him because that's.
Speaker A:I find that egregious.
Speaker A:But the reason I think it is is, like, it's diversity of thought.
Speaker A:It's not what color your skin is.
Speaker A:It's not who you choose to sleep with or what religion that you choose to practice.
Speaker A:It's actually diversity of thought.
Speaker A:I have a friend, Nina, like, one of my best mates from uni.
Speaker A:Her mum's Indian, her dad's from Africa.
Speaker A:Africa.
Speaker A:Brought up in the uk, Same background as me, went to the same university.
Speaker A:We think very similar, but she took a DNI box, but she thinks exactly the same way as me, you know, and actually dive.
Speaker A:It's really about diversity of thought.
Speaker A:And actually, most diversity comes from your socioeconomic background.
Speaker A:And actually, that is the greatest prejudice in the uk.
Speaker A:But please do not make it a status, because I can't deal with any more statuses, because then at some point we're gonna have to make white men a status because everybody else is a minority apart from white men.
Speaker A:At this point, everything's gone too far.
Speaker A:Like, we are not sensible about things.
Speaker A:So that's why I don't like DNI initiatives.
Speaker A:It's why I don't have one.
Speaker A:But what I do really believe in is making spaces feel safe for people to be able to speak their mind and contribute their ideas, because that's how you get diversity.
Speaker A:So really, for me, it's about inclusion.
Speaker A:It's about making everyone feel that they've got a seat at the table and having a voice.
Speaker A:And that's really hard to put into a policy.
Speaker A:So you just have to create the right.
Speaker B:I think that's so true.
Speaker B:And when people say diversity, they basically mean, are they white or black?
Speaker B:That's basically what they mean a lot of times.
Speaker A:Or a man or a woman.
Speaker B:But I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker B:Thought like, wait, what?
Speaker B:You know, that you.
Speaker B:There's nothing more enjoyable in life, too, of having a friend who comes from A very different background from you, and yet you love to debate and, you know, connect.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:It's really bizarre.
Speaker A:Like, one of my best mates, a girl called Genevieve, and she.
Speaker A:We went to university together in the States.
Speaker A:So she's American.
Speaker A:She now lives.
Speaker A:She's now married to a French man living in France.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Massive.
Speaker A:And I mean, massive Donald Trump supporter.
Speaker A:Massive.
Speaker A:And at one point, I was like, are we gonna get through this?
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:We have.
Speaker A:And I really enjoyed debating with her about what she sees as his merits.
Speaker A:Cause I'm very not a Trump person.
Speaker A:And I feel like that's what we've lost the art of now.
Speaker A:Like, we are so polarized that we cannot have an intelligent debate where we disagree.
Speaker A:And actually, you know, when you have a debate with someone who really doesn't believe what you believe and you get past it and you listen to what.
Speaker B:They'Re saying, well, you're having a debate, you're talking to each other.
Speaker A:It advances the concept.
Speaker B:You learn.
Speaker B:And I'm sure you're gonna say this.
Speaker B:I'm very happy to change my opinion.
Speaker A:Yeah, me too.
Speaker B:I love it when that happens.
Speaker B:I'm like, you know, I have that little moment.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, absolutely right.
Speaker B:I'm completely wrong about this point.
Speaker A:But how many times now have you been in a situation where you've heard someone say something and you're like, maybe they're a Brexiteer and you're not, and you just shut up.
Speaker A:You go, oh, well, I'm just definitely not gonna go near that.
Speaker B:That topic constantly.
Speaker B:As a.
Speaker B:As a white man, there's so often I'm sitting there just like, well, you know, what's that?
Speaker A:And that's why.
Speaker A:And that's the real debate.
Speaker A:And the real conversation has stopped now.
Speaker A:And when that happens, society stops advancing.
Speaker A:And I just find it really, really sad.
Speaker A:I find that almost more sad than Brexit.
Speaker B:So that on die, you're in a FTSE company, though, the footsie company has to.
Speaker B:Because what I feel the pressure to is that you're supposed to be public with a policy and what do you do?
Speaker B:And you've got to be public about it.
Speaker B:You know, how do you manage that as a business?
Speaker B:Because you're not saying it's bullshit.
Speaker B:You're just saying it's about inclusion of thought.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's not get hung up on whether or not they're South African.
Speaker A:We need to stop ticking boxes.
Speaker B:Ticking boxes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's what really, really upsets me.
Speaker A:And I wish I could talk more about that from cause there's lots of stuff I've seen like in publicly listed companies where I'm like whoa, blows my mind.
Speaker A:But I can't talk about it because that's the one area that I'm like, I like really enjoy that job.
Speaker A:I really love being an ED at Persimmon.
Speaker A:I'm learning loads and I don't want to lose that job.
Speaker A:So everything I say I say in a personal capacity or for Resy because I can.
Speaker A:It's my company.
Speaker A:Like I'm confident about talking about my own policies and the way we run that company but I do feel like we are constantly self having to self center censor on a lots of things now and we've lost the kind of art of compromise and debate which I think is a real shame because we're not really advancing lots of really important topics because we we can't seem to talk about them.
Speaker B:Alex has been a tsunami of strong opinion and perspective, much of which I agreed with.
Speaker B:Let's boil it down to some more final three key takeaways.
Speaker B:Number six the perils of overregulation in housing.
Speaker B:Regulation was meant to protect the housing market, but too much of it has had the opposite effect.
Speaker B:Strict planning laws and red tape has strangled development, slow, slowed construction and kept prices high.
Speaker B:Instead of fixing the crisis, overregulation has made it worse.
Speaker B:Number seven tax and the top 1% earners.
Speaker B:Why is it that the wealthiest 1% pay nearly a third of all UK tax revenue, yet the media narrative paints them as the problem?
Speaker B:Perhaps the real issue ran deeper than that.
Speaker B:I'd love to hear your thoughts on this on YouTube or Spotify.
Speaker B:Comments.
Speaker B:Number 8 Diversity of thought in business.
Speaker B:Business diversity isn't just about ticking boxes.
Speaker B:It's about diverse thinking.
Speaker B:Alex made it clear businesses that value fresh perspectives over superficial quotas are the ones that thrive.
Speaker A:And now a quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker B:Business without is brought to you by Ori Clark.
Speaker B: ancial and legal advice since: Speaker B:You can find us@oriclark.com Ory is spelled O Q R Y.
Speaker B:Before we press on.
Speaker B:Just a quick reminder to come say hi on whatever social platform you like.
Speaker B:We're pretty much on all of them.
Speaker B:Just search for WB London.
Speaker B:Amazing things you've built.
Speaker B:And I love the passion which you you speak and everything.
Speaker B:I mean, what's the big vision for Resi?
Speaker B:You just want to, you know, get it, get it.
Speaker B:Smashing it.
Speaker B:You're going to go into other countries where it's already smashing It.
Speaker B:But even more, I mean, there's like.
Speaker A:The sort of anywhere between 700 and 900,000 extensions like that take place across the UK every year.
Speaker A:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker A:I mean, it's probably lower now, given everything we've been through with COVID but sort of pretty much like once every 25 years an existing house is changed in some way.
Speaker A:So it sort of is this constant cycle, right.
Speaker A:And where the largest and we're the only one that's got to any sort of size.
Speaker A:So for me, RESI is really all about trying to make it as cheap as possible and as efficient as possible, because it's quite painful.
Speaker A:But ultimately the grand vision for us really is to improve the existing stock.
Speaker A:Because if we were to knock down those 19 million houses and rebuild them with new builds, it would take 130 years at the current rate we build.
Speaker A:And this idea that we're going to suddenly get back up to building 400,000 houses a year is actual nonsense because, number one, we don't have the skilled workforce in the.
Speaker A:Which is why I go back to the planning debate.
Speaker A:It goes hand in hand.
Speaker A:You can unblock planning, but if you don't have the people to build it and you don't have the people to finance the land purchase and all, the thing doesn't stack up anyway.
Speaker A:And the other thing is the people that are missing in this equation of building houses, the.
Speaker A: ctor that were ever since the: Speaker A:The people that used to build the other 150, 50,000, they were the councils.
Speaker A:We stripped the councils of their ability to build and finance, like about 15 years ago.
Speaker A:Now we've reinstituted, we've reinstated it.
Speaker A:It's not going to change things because all of that local planning, construction, building knowledge doesn't exist in councils anymore.
Speaker A:So I think it's going to be a hard order for us to get those 150,000 houses privately built.
Speaker A:So I think basically we have to look at existing stock solutions, even if they're not the easiest and they are complex, complicated.
Speaker A:So that's the vision for RESI is I want to lead that charge.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Do what we can to expand, expand that.
Speaker B:But they don't like splitting up your home.
Speaker A:We love our old houses.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We don't want to show like a Georgian house is the most expensive.
Speaker A:It holds its value better than any other house because it's beautiful.
Speaker A:You're not going to pull them down, are you?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're going to restore them, so you're going to retrofit them and renovate them.
Speaker A:And that's what I want to be a part of is preserving and enhancing the spaces that we spend the most time in, which are our homes.
Speaker B:Only because we've ended up in that corner.
Speaker B:We, you know, what do you feel on the sort of immigration, meaning there's too many people here, you know, not enough space in the country to build, you know, the, these issues.
Speaker B:We've got to get immigration down, we've got to like start building in, you know, green in the countryside and things or.
Speaker A:I mean it's.
Speaker A:Immigration is one of those hot potato topics.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, we've had a few.
Speaker B:You're smashing them, smashing through them.
Speaker A:Then she gets cancelled.
Speaker B:Yes, you're dead.
Speaker B:It's over.
Speaker A:I think look within immigration.
Speaker A:So like, I've always been very pro immigration.
Speaker A:Like I went to the States and stayed there for eight years and did my education there.
Speaker A:So I was an immigrant.
Speaker A:So I've been in sort of both sides of the table.
Speaker A:The people that.
Speaker A:And I did my dissertation when I was at the University of Chicago was on exactly this topic.
Speaker A:And the, you know, statistically significant answer is that the media stalks the immigration.
Speaker A:Immigration fury.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Xenophobia rises with the amount of coverage it receives in the newspapers.
Speaker A:But I'd say a couple of things.
Speaker A:I think we have failed massively to develop the skill sets in this country that we need through every layer of education, whether it's in primary or secondary school and then beyond in apprenticeships and in degrees.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:We, for some reason we all have decided that degree is the only way that you can demonstrate that you are, you know, a smart person.
Speaker A:And actually there are lots of jobs where learning on the job, like honestly, software engineering, you know, you don't think of it like that, you think, oh, hairdressing, oh, we'll learn that on the job.
Speaker A:No, software engineering, you're better off learning that on the job.
Speaker A:You'll move quicker and faster and be more valuable than if you get a degree.
Speaker B:Genuinely, I think it's the truth with almost all jobs now, I've got, it's got to a point the university just sets people back.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:But for some reason we never deviated from that.
Speaker A:So what we've done is we've kept bringing in cheaper labor.
Speaker A:Not training.
Speaker A:There is a truth in this.
Speaker A:Not training our, our own, like young people to be ready for work.
Speaker A:And there has to be a switch, Right.
Speaker A:But that switch, you can't, it can't be all or nothing.
Speaker A:We can't just shut down immigration right now because ultimately how are we gonna do any of the things that we need to do?
Speaker A:But equally, you have to taper off at some point because you can't bring that many more immigrants in because we can't house them.
Speaker A:We can't house the people that are here.
Speaker A:You know, 10 million more people have entered this country in the last like 10 to 15 years.
Speaker A: so far was like, I think like: Speaker A:The last time we built a power station was wherever.
Speaker A:Like housing.
Speaker A:The housing stock has not improved.
Speaker A:So we've masses of infrastructure, but no one seems to be able to answer the question, like, well, if, if it's not immigrants, then who is it?
Speaker A:And how do we get them up to speed quickly enough?
Speaker B:And we've just lost it so much.
Speaker B:And this, it takes so long to rebuild.
Speaker B:As you say, there's only a few major manufacturers like, you know, BAE Systems or, you know, Rolls Royce.
Speaker B:Is very, very little left, isn't there?
Speaker B:And then the sad TR that people won't accept risk with their job.
Speaker B:You know, my old man always bang on about it used to pay to be an apprentice, you know, to be a clerk and an accountant, to do what you'd pay someone to teach you to be a plumber, to have a trade.
Speaker B:But employee mentality.
Speaker B:Now it's like when you talk to them, no, I want shares and I don't want risk and I want a salary.
Speaker A:And it's like, well, and that's the one thing I massively disagree with labor on.
Speaker A:And I had this out with Sadiq when I used to sit on his board because they were like, no, you, if you have an intern, you have to, to pay them.
Speaker A:I'm like, what do you.
Speaker A:Having an intern is not a help for a company.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's actually a lot a big burden because you have to educate and train that person up for as long as they're there.
Speaker A:Should you pay their bus fair in their dinner fair?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, sure.
Speaker A:And now they've equalized, like, what is it?
Speaker A:18 and 16 year olds get paid the same as like a 24 year old?
Speaker A:I'm like, blows my mind.
Speaker B:I didn't even know.
Speaker B:We don't, we don't have interns anymore.
Speaker B:You're absolutely right because.
Speaker B:And people always back at the.
Speaker B:Oh, could some.
Speaker B:You know, he just wants.
Speaker B:And it's like, you don't understand what a nightmare that is for us.
Speaker B:They know Nothing, you know, and they're.
Speaker A:Leaving anyway but then you're depriving them of any kind of job ready skills.
Speaker A:And that is a real problem because I literally interview 2, 300 kids every single year and they don't really know how to compose an email, they don't know how to conduct themselves in a meeting.
Speaker A:They lack all of the soft skills that you would get in a Saturday job or you would get through an internship or an apprenticeship.
Speaker A:And there has to be a balance between the child or the young adult being able to afford to come in and spend the time and learn and the company being able to afford to give that time.
Speaker A:There's a trade off there.
Speaker A:And at the minute I feel like, and it's not just the Labour government, the Tories particularly, especially after Covid, they expect business to pick it all up.
Speaker A:I feel like business is being asked to be the bearer of everything.
Speaker A:You know, through Covid I felt like my employees mother, career counsellor, mental health therapist.
Speaker B:That's so hard.
Speaker B:The hr, it's so hard now but.
Speaker A:It'S what they expect as well.
Speaker A:Like they expect duvet days because they can't.
Speaker A:They're struggling to get out of bed.
Speaker A:I'm like, I tell you what, right mate, if it was a difference between coming into work and getting paid so you could afford to eat, we know what you would do and we've got to this place in life where I feel nanny state.
Speaker A:Well it's not a nanny state but the grand aspiration of everyone seems to be I have to get to a point where all I do in life is enjoy myself, that I like everything.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And actually that's not the point of life.
Speaker A:Like I can't remember which great philosopher said it but like the point of being human is to suffer.
Speaker A:And the point that I think they're trying to make is like if you do not suffer then you never reach the euphoric highs.
Speaker A:You need the two to be able to self reference the other now.
Speaker A:And there is a lot of people that are living in a lot of misery.
Speaker A:So I'm not talking about them but as a general argument, I don't think life is meant to be a bed of roses.
Speaker B:I just couldn't agree with you more that I mean, look, I work with my father who's 82, who comes from the post war era, you know, he cannot get his head around some of it, you know, and exactly as you say people, well I'm a bit tired today and it's like tough.
Speaker A:You have to carry on.
Speaker B:We'Re going to ask you just some quick fire questions, get to know you a little bit better.
Speaker B:Dee is queuing some music and we're off.
Speaker B:What was your first job?
Speaker A:Well, my first job was a paper round, but that's a paper round.
Speaker A:So my first job was actually age 13.
Speaker A:I used to go into the Grand Grand Hotel in Bradford and I used to lay the tables for the weddings.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, it's quite, quite, quite a nice first job.
Speaker B:Anyway, what was your worst job?
Speaker A:My absolute worst job was.
Speaker A: Internet was arriving in like: Speaker A:Had to sell advertising space on the website and I had to cold call from the yellow pages.
Speaker A:It was horrific.
Speaker A:Which is why I never make anyone cold call at Resi, because if I, if I do a job myself, I don't ask anyone else to do it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I cold call is just one of the worst jobs.
Speaker B:AI is doing that for us now.
Speaker B:And then you can get your AI to answer it.
Speaker A:Not just yet.
Speaker A:It's still not good enough.
Speaker A:I've tried it, but yeah, we are, we'll get there eventually.
Speaker B:It's coming.
Speaker B:But then I'll just set my AI up to reply, basically.
Speaker B:I mean, anyway.
Speaker B:What's your favorite subject at school?
Speaker A:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker A:I mean, I loved art, so I was actually going to go do fine art before I ended up weirdly going and doing history.
Speaker A:Bit of a 180, but I think history, like, I love history.
Speaker A:Like, I'd still read a lot and.
Speaker B:You know, do you listen to the rest is history?
Speaker A:I don't actually, but it was funny because I did get asked to present a podcast on history by Dan Snow.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:His company.
Speaker A:But like, it was really badly paid for a lot of work, so I didn't do that.
Speaker A:Sorry, Dan.
Speaker A:But then I guess my favorite quote is by a social historian called Arthur Marwick.
Speaker A:And it is something like, society that ignores history is like man without memory.
Speaker A:And I think that's so true.
Speaker A:And we should remember that, particularly now.
Speaker B:Yeah, history's my favorite subject.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker B:What's your special skill?
Speaker A:Special skill?
Speaker A:Like, none.
Speaker A:I mean, I just make shit up as I go along long, to be quite honest.
Speaker A:But I think if I had to get.
Speaker A:I don't know, I'm pretty good at reading people, which I think not many people have proper EQ and I get someone's number pretty quickly.
Speaker A:So I think it's helped me navigate life particularly with this accent, you know, from Bradford, I can kind of like, you know, be out on the streets with, like, the kids or I can be, you know, introducing.
Speaker B:I was about to say, talking to French Charlotte's almost the best accent to have these days.
Speaker B:Days, if you think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It didn't used to be growing up, though.
Speaker B:It didn't.
Speaker B:It's changed so much now, you know, I mean, you know, God help me with my accent.
Speaker B:Although I do enjoy the fact that cab drivers always give me this look, like, where are you from?
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:You from London or something?
Speaker B:I don't know where I'm from.
Speaker B:Where did you.
Speaker B:What did you want to be when you grew up?
Speaker A:Well, I never knew.
Speaker A:I mean, I've never known.
Speaker A:I still don't know what I'm gonna do with my life.
Speaker A:But I know that as a kid, I was desperate to work in the coffee corner shop and use the till.
Speaker A:And even now, I reckon I'd probably love to get a job at Sainsbury's.
Speaker A:You know, on the checkout where you beep things and then you weigh things in your town.
Speaker A:I don't know, I'm just obsessed.
Speaker A:I always wanted, like a till when I was a kid.
Speaker A:And so with my daughters, I bought them that till and you can find me.
Speaker B:My daughter keeps coming up to the moment.
Speaker B:She's got the machine that beeps, you know, like, when you tap it.
Speaker B:She's like, oh, dad.
Speaker B:Tapping.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I always got the self checkout at Sainsbury's because I want to beep it.
Speaker A:So basically, when I'm not reading resi anymore, you're going to find me in your local Sainsbury's.
Speaker A:Beeping on the checkout.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker B:Excellent answer.
Speaker B:What did your parents want you to be?
Speaker A:Oh, Jesus.
Speaker B:They wanted you to be.
Speaker B:Jesus.
Speaker B:Jesus.
Speaker A:I don't even.
Speaker A:Do you know what?
Speaker A:I don't even know.
Speaker A:Like, the only thing my parents ever really wanted me to do and I refused, was to go to the grammar school.
Speaker A:So to go to Bradford Girls Grammar School, and they tried to make me sit the exam.
Speaker A:And I was like, a bit of a mini communist at the time, and I was like, I'm not going to that privileged school.
Speaker A:So I went to instead the worst state school in the whole of West Yorkshire, and they burnt it down three times.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:There's so much to talk about there, but we haven't got the time.
Speaker B:Another time, maybe.
Speaker B:Do you have a Go to karaoke song?
Speaker A:Oh, my God, Jules, she's listening to this.
Speaker A:My Co founder and best friend.
Speaker A:She'd laugh because it's one of two things.
Speaker A:It's Black Velvet by Alana Miles or my favorite, which is.
Speaker A:It's oh so Quiet by Bjork.
Speaker B:Oh, that's an amazing song.
Speaker B:Bjork's an amazing thing.
Speaker B:Well, we're gonna have to.
Speaker B:It's us or quiet.
Speaker B:Is that what it's called, that song?
Speaker A:It's oh, so quiet.
Speaker B:It's oh so quiet, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's oh, so quiet.
Speaker B:And then she goes bananas.
Speaker A:And that's the bit that I love.
Speaker A:And I can also hold the note right at the end.
Speaker B:Can you?
Speaker A:Yeah, cuz it's.
Speaker A:I am not singing.
Speaker B:We do a lot of work with the Icelanders.
Speaker B:Big up Iceland.
Speaker B:Amazing place.
Speaker B:Amazing place.
Speaker A:And the hair and just like.
Speaker A:I think Bjork's just fabulous.
Speaker B:Incredible.
Speaker B:Incredible artists.
Speaker B:Office dogs.
Speaker B:Business or office what?
Speaker A:Which one?
Speaker B:I prefer office dogs.
Speaker B:Business or bush?
Speaker B:My own.
Speaker A:I love a dog.
Speaker A:We have dogs in our office.
Speaker A:I don't have a dog.
Speaker A:But like, Jules got Percy.
Speaker A:A couple of our engineers have got dogs.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, yeah, dogs.
Speaker B:Yeah, why not?
Speaker A:I mean, he's just slept the whole way through.
Speaker B:I know, I know.
Speaker B:Well done.
Speaker B:When he comes in this room and he's like, oh, here we go.
Speaker B:Two hours.
Speaker A:I mean, he's breathing.
Speaker A:I've checked.
Speaker B:Have you ever been fired, Alex?
Speaker A:Yes, once I have.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:I worked at this restaurant and it was a bit like Little Chef on the outskirts of Nottingham when I was at university and I was the restaurant manager.
Speaker A:And they made you work Christmas.
Speaker A:And so I opted to work Boxing Day, not Christmas Day.
Speaker A:And anyway, obviously I drove back to Brat.
Speaker A:So I spent Christmas Eve on my own in my uni flat with none of my uni mates.
Speaker A:And then went.
Speaker A:Did Christmas Day.
Speaker A:Went home.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When I did something and he went home.
Speaker A:Anyway, Mum was like, don't go back.
Speaker A:Don't do.
Speaker A:So she rang.
Speaker A:So she rang the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The guy and she's like, yeah, Alex can't come in.
Speaker A:So he's like, right, she's fired.
Speaker A:And my mum was like, you can't do that.
Speaker A:He's like, yeah, I just did.
Speaker A:That was it.
Speaker B:Got fired by your mum, Basically inadvertently.
Speaker B:Your mum's actions, you know, she came.
Speaker A:Out, she was like, I'm really sorry he fired you.
Speaker A:I was like, I told you Mummy would do.
Speaker A:And she's like, oh, well, you just have to stay here now.
Speaker A:And I was like, no, I've got to go get another job.
Speaker B:What's Your vice, Alex?
Speaker A:My vice?
Speaker A:Wine.
Speaker B:Very nice.
Speaker B:Good answer.
Speaker B:Do you know the amount of people that say, you know, working too hard or something like that?
Speaker B:It's good to have a.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How's that a vice?
Speaker A:That's a virtue.
Speaker A:Jesus Christ.
Speaker B:Any top tips for entrepreneurs?
Speaker A:Don't do it.
Speaker B:Don't do it.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker A:I mean, so torn.
Speaker A:I think it takes a certain type of person and it has to be a person that doesn't really like holidays, time off or family, because it.
Speaker A:It's all consuming.
Speaker A:I wouldn't do anything different, but that's because I'm unemployable.
Speaker A:But I think you need to think really, really hard about what is important to you in your life before you do this, because once you're in, it's really hard to extract yourself.
Speaker B:So true.
Speaker B:So true.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I just say it's hard.
Speaker B:Well, if you go partly do it when you're young, then as well do.
Speaker A:It when you're young.
Speaker A:But also, like, let's be really honest, there's.
Speaker A:You can earn a lot more money, like, doing other things.
Speaker A:Like, genuinely, you can earn money.
Speaker A:I mean, I had an.
Speaker A:Yeah, you can earn money.
Speaker A:I had an.
Speaker A:And I was like, really?
Speaker A:You know, there's a blend of timing and luck and really hard work.
Speaker A:And actually, I worked out in the nine years that I've been running Resi, if I'd have gone off and done something else like that, I could have done.
Speaker A:Whether that was investment or I'd gone and, you know, got a senior job in another big company, I would have earned more money in the last nine years than I've earned currently.
Speaker A:So you kind of have to weigh that up too, actually.
Speaker B:That's a great.
Speaker B:Another truth.
Speaker B:When people sort of feel, you know, it's like when they do get their payout, the few people who do, it's the minority who get, you know, you did fantastically well to go and sell your business.
Speaker B:Most people, they're lucky, they get a few quid at the end.
Speaker B:It usually just all falls apart and everyone hates.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And they've lost their house, you know.
Speaker A:And it can also do.
Speaker A:You know, it can also destroy confidence, like, so.
Speaker A:But I've seen so many people be, like, really struggle to come back from their business going bust or their business going under because they feel a source of shame.
Speaker A:That's really hard to alleviate.
Speaker A:And so I think, you know, you just have to be really careful about the sort of person you are and whether it's.
Speaker B:It's right for you, Alex, you.
Speaker B:You've smashed up the microphone in the most delightful way.
Speaker B:Thank you for your honesty.
Speaker B:I mean, a bravery, I would say, to be honest.
Speaker B:Not many people are brave enough to just speak it as it is.
Speaker A:But now you've made me worried that I've said something really bad.
Speaker B:No, I mean.
Speaker B:I mean that in a good way.
Speaker A:The thing is, you know, you have to be on social media to get canceled, and I'm not really there.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But I really appreciate you coming and doing this today.
Speaker A:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:That that was this week's episode of Business Without.
Speaker B:Thank you, De for absolutely killing it as always and keeping me on track.
Speaker B:Thank you, Alex.
Speaker B:Thank you, Romeo lying in the corner passed out.
Speaker B:And we'll be back next Wednesday.
Speaker B:And until then, it's ciao.
