Episode 397
How To Rebuild a Healthcare System
EP 397 - In Moldova, thousands of disabled children and adults remain unseen - hidden away by a system that offers them little support. In this episode, Andy speaks to humanitarian and social entrepreneur Victoria Dunford, founder of MAD-Aid, who is fighting to bring dignity, inclusion, and opportunity to those left behind.
From transforming hospitals to changing laws, discover how one woman is challenging stigma and building a future where no one is invisible
*For Apple Podcast chapters, access them from the menu in the bottom right corner of your player*
Spotify Video Chapters:
00:00 BWB with Victoria Dunford
01:24 Quickfire - Get to Know Victoria
01:36 Victoria's Early Career and Challenges
05:10 The State of Healthcare in Moldova
08:00 Founding MAD-Aid and Early Efforts
14:12 Changing Legislation and Social Impact
17:49 Fundraising and Building Trust
20:15 The Ukraine Conflict and Moldova's Future
21:45 Business and Charity Partnerships
22:52 Building Connections
23:17 The Benefits of Donating to Charity
23:29 Challenges and Changes in Charity Regulations
24:41 Transparency and Trust in Charitable Donations
26:28 The Importance of Grassroots and Big Charities
26:43 Encouraging Heartfelt Donations
27:33 The Role of Charity Commissions
29:11 Fundraising and Donor Engagement
33:08 Healthcare Systems in Moldova and the UK
37:44 MAD-Aid's Goals and Ambitions
40:27 Advice for Entrepreneurs and Founders
43:56 Challenges and Misconceptions in Charity Work
44:47 Wrap Up
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Transcript
She was just trying to send 30 hospital beds back to Moldova and ended up changing the law, building a national rehab center and delivering thousands of wheelchairs to kids who'd never been outside.
Speaker A:Today on Business Without Bullshit, meet Victoria Dunford, the woman who turned NHS Leftovers into a healthcare revolution.
Speaker A:Hello and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.
Speaker A:I am Ashley Andy Uri and today we are delighted to be joined by Victoria Dunford, a remarkable humanitarian, social entrepreneur and the driving force behind Mad Aid, a UK based charity transforming lives in Moldova.
Speaker A: Since launching mad aid in: Speaker A:She has also led the creation of the Phoenix Complex, a pioneering center offering rehabilitation for children with special needs.
Speaker A:Elderly Claire.
Speaker A:And soon a hydrotherapy facility.
Speaker A:Victoria's work has earned her a British Empire Medal and a Moldova Civic Merit Medal.
Speaker A:She's also the author of the book get the Life and Times of a Mad Woman.
Speaker A:Excellent title, Victoria.
Speaker A:Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:We're gonna start just with a little bit of fun, Victoria.
Speaker A:We're just gonna ask you a few simple questions about yourself just to understand you a little bit better.
Speaker A:Call it the Quick Fire round, which is doing some music and so what was your first job, Victoria?
Speaker B:When I was a student, my brother ran a shop, more like a corner shop equivalent in UK but it was a corner shop slash pub.
Speaker B:And in the summer I used to work there.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:In the UK this was.
Speaker B:And I was in Moldova.
Speaker A:In Moldova.
Speaker A:What do you call a corner shop in Moldova?
Speaker B:Oh, just a shop.
Speaker B:Because the nobility.
Speaker B:So I only had two, three of those and they as I said they play like a shop, like a pub, like everything.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:An all in one shop.
Speaker A:Multi discipline.
Speaker A:What was your worst job?
Speaker B:Cropping tomatoes.
Speaker B:When I came after graduating university in UK for two years work experience I was cropping tomatoes at 30 degrees in a greenhouse.
Speaker B:And doesn't matter how much you used to wash yourself after that, you still weigh a green.
Speaker B:So the towels was still green.
Speaker A:So do you like tomatoes now?
Speaker B:Yes, I don't mind them.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I worked on a farm actually.
Speaker A:Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker A:Killing.
Speaker A:Favorite subject at school?
Speaker B:Chemistry.
Speaker A:Chemistry.
Speaker A:Okay, very good.
Speaker A:What's your special skill, Victoria?
Speaker B:Making possible from impossible probably.
Speaker B:I'll say.
Speaker B:Especially when everyone around say it's impossible and you can't do it and don't try.
Speaker B:I think that's the what I am quite good at and connecting people as well I think.
Speaker A:What did you want to be when.
Speaker B:You grew up a doctor?
Speaker B:I really, really wanted to be a doctor.
Speaker B:That was my possible.
Speaker B:My mom was a single mom when I grow up and to have nine year student was quite difficult in those times in Moldova.
Speaker B:So I decided to finish analytical chemistry.
Speaker B:So I have a master degree in chemistry.
Speaker B:But now I'm working in hospitals fixing them anyway.
Speaker B:So somehow fate throw me back into hospitals.
Speaker A:Yeah, you got there in the end.
Speaker A:What did your parents want you to be?
Speaker B:A nurse, a teacher, Something very safe.
Speaker B:So I have a job forever.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And do you do karaoke?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:If you had to do karaoke, what song would you sing?
Speaker B:I will survive probably will be one.
Speaker A:Oh, nice story again.
Speaker B:Another one probably will be Some hearts of diamonds.
Speaker B:Some hearts are stone.
Speaker A:Oh, some hearts are diamonds Some hearts are stones.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Office dogs business, or I'll say it's.
Speaker B:Business Dog is much more friendly sometimes and is more therapeutic than any kind of counseling or therapy.
Speaker A:What's your guilty pleasure?
Speaker B:Working very late and reading a lot.
Speaker A:Okay, let's.
Speaker A:Let's just understand what's going on here.
Speaker A:So what are you doing right now, Victoria?
Speaker B:What I don't do, I run a charity.
Speaker B:And when you run a charity you end up doing quite a lot of things and you're wearing many hats.
Speaker B:So at the moment my main job is to try to connect people, to raise the funds to give opportunity to people to get involved in making a difference.
Speaker B:We are collecting and recycling a lot of equipment that is not possible to use in UK for different reasons, for health and safety issues, for expiry date.
Speaker B:And we are recycling and repurposing this kind of equipment and it's a triple win situation.
Speaker B:We save the environment, we just.
Speaker B:An analysis on every single truck of aid we are shipping abroad is saving about 60,000 tons of CO2 plus this equipment makes a huge difference in another countries.
Speaker B:We send mostly in Moldova since Ukrainian war.
Speaker B:We send a lot in Ukraine too.
Speaker A:Tell us a little bit about Moldova.
Speaker A:I mean I could barely put it on a map.
Speaker A:It's what it's between Ukraine and Romania.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:So Moldova is a very small country.
Speaker B:It's a landlocked country.
Speaker B:It's size of Wales.
Speaker B:The immigration has been a huge part of Moldova since 90s, since the dissolution of Soviet Union.
Speaker B:And my analogy about Moldova is getting better now.
Speaker B:But when the Soviet Union dissolved we sort of were given freedom but no one knew how to fly.
Speaker B:So the country gone down the hill quite badly because it's not leadership.
Speaker B:People didn't know how to be free.
Speaker B:It's Getting better now, but the poverty is quite high.
Speaker B:Still one in four children live under the poverty line.
Speaker B:This is classified as the poorest country in Europe.
Speaker A:Poorest country in Europe.
Speaker A:Europe.
Speaker B:The disability is still not on the map.
Speaker B:The one of the area we are working into, we are making good Progress.
Speaker B:So in 10 years we have managed to lobby legislation.
Speaker B:We put the disability, social inclusion, inclusive education on the map of Moldova.
Speaker B:The therapy, the hospitals, some of them have not been refurbished for 40, 50 years.
Speaker B:So we physically have wars where the.
Speaker A:Tiles are falling down since the Russian.
Speaker B:Ended, really since they've been built.
Speaker B:So the hospital we are working now is the main children's hospital in the entire country and has not seen any refurbishment since 86 since was built our hospitals.
Speaker B:When we started delivering aid here, we took the beds the hospice and HS was throwing away because they thought it's the end of their life.
Speaker B:And they still got now there because there was rusty wire beds.
Speaker B:You probably never saw them in your life.
Speaker A:Not to get into the heavy politics, but obviously with all that's going on with Russia and Ukraine, do you get drawn into that?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Moldova is in an extremely critical situation at the moment because obviously we are on a border with the war with Ukraine.
Speaker B:We played a huge part in helping refugees because we was first gateway.
Speaker B:A refugee escaped from Ukraine and we dealt as a country, as a community quite well.
Speaker B:This giving us name Moldova.
Speaker B:Small country, big heart.
Speaker B:But the Russian influence is still very high.
Speaker B:So the last election was very, very critical.
Speaker B:And the Russian propaganda and the Russian influence is extremely, extremely deeply embedded in still in society, which is quite dangerous.
Speaker A:Russia is still the national language, isn't it?
Speaker B:Or no, it's Romanian.
Speaker B:It's a national language.
Speaker A:Oh, it's Romanian you speak.
Speaker B:And the English is a second language.
Speaker B:So Russian are still.
Speaker B:There are still school in Russian, but not so many.
Speaker A:So you consider yourself more Romanian, if anything, do you?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:But when I studied in school, my second language was Russian, so my first third language was English.
Speaker B:But now the second language is saying it's English language.
Speaker A:So why do this?
Speaker A:You ended up in the uk, did you?
Speaker A:And then you set this charity up or what's the story?
Speaker A:How did we get here?
Speaker B:Yes, I came in UK as a student up to graduating for work experience.
Speaker B:I thought I promised my mom, I'll go back in two years.
Speaker B:I'll come, I'll make some money for I'll learn everything is possible to.
Speaker B:To learn.
Speaker B:I'll make some money, go back and start working.
Speaker B:Let's say a teacher in the Chemistry or as a lab in any kind of lab.
Speaker B:And I met my husband.
Speaker B:I went on Isle of Wight because that was my work experience, my work contract.
Speaker B:And then I met my husband and here I am.
Speaker B:So I stuck on Isle of Wight in a good way.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:And John walked in and walked out and he was horrified.
Speaker B:He said the hospitals in Moldova are looking worse than the British hospitals in the second world World War.
Speaker B:And I looked at him and I say, you are spoiled British.
Speaker B:The belt hospital looks better than one like a local hospital.
Speaker B:Elh I came in uk I sort of started looking for different jobs.
Speaker B:I knew I'm here for a long time married, I was trying to do some study, legalizing my diploma.
Speaker B:And in meantime I started working in NHS on Isle of Wide and I was just as shocked as John.
Speaker B:But on another side I so what's how a modern hospital should look like?
Speaker A:Oh, because you'd never really seen it before.
Speaker B:No, I never saw how the hospital can look nice and the bedding should be changed two times a day.
Speaker A:People would say the opposite too.
Speaker A:They'd say oh, the state of British hospitals or something, you know, probably not great, I don't know.
Speaker B:After working few years there, you probably see the minuses everywhere but it's still when you have way to compare.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It's so relative life, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's different.
Speaker B:And coming from the night shift one day I say to John, look, they are going to throw away 30 beds.
Speaker B:They look like new.
Speaker B:Can you imagine how won would be if this bed will end up in a hospital in Moldova in cardiology world I knew exactly where I wanted those beds to end up.
Speaker B:Where my mom was still frequent patient.
Speaker B:And John said if anyone can do this, it's you.
Speaker B:So I thought it'll be easy.
Speaker B:You load a truck full of beds, send it to moba, job done within two months.
Speaker B:I knocked on my neighbors at times and asked them how do I set up a charity?
Speaker B:Because you needed a legal entity in order to send this kind of.
Speaker A:For them to be able to donate the beds to you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And to be able to do all the custom clearance and transportation.
Speaker B:Moldova being outside the Europe.
Speaker B:And my neighbor used to work for HR for childhood I think so she used to have some experience, retired, some experience and nonprofit.
Speaker B:But when you have someone like 5 o' clock in the evening knocking on your door with a question, how do I start a charity?
Speaker B:You sort of sit back anyway and say, let me think about this.
Speaker B:And she brought me one big book from ncvo.
Speaker B:Within three months, I learned everything else to learn and I set up a charity.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:No way.
Speaker A:And you set it up as a limited company by guarantee.
Speaker A:Register the charity.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:The traditional way.
Speaker A:Because you can do a CIO now.
Speaker B:Charitable at the time they only started doing the cao.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:CIO is five years old maybe or something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it was not an option at time.
Speaker B:So we had a trustee.
Speaker B:I've done the charity trustee sign up for one truck, two trucks with eight per year.
Speaker A:The trustee signed up for it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They thought it's going to be a small charity.
Speaker B:So I'm going to work, I'm going to collect fewer pieces of equipment and ship it to Moldova.
Speaker B:How hard this can be.
Speaker B:And a year later, when Alouvat prison came to me and said, we have 200 wheelchairs, would you like to collect them?
Speaker B:And I said, no, we don't have disabled children in Moldova.
Speaker B:British have disabled children because you're eating too much crisps, too much fish and chips.
Speaker A:You don't have disabled children.
Speaker B:We don't have disabled children.
Speaker B:Nevertheless, I decided to ask the Moldova government, do we need wheelchairs?
Speaker B: shocked when they told me in: Speaker B:So I never saw disabled people.
Speaker A:Oh, so you never saw wheelchairs and you thought it was because you eat healthy, but it's actually because.
Speaker B:Because they are hidden away, because they were a burden to society.
Speaker B:They were hidden away.
Speaker B:No wheelchairs, no infrastructure for them.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:So I took 200 wheelchairs going to Moldova.
Speaker B:Happy that I'm going to Change lives to 200 people.
Speaker B:Enthusiastic.
Speaker B:And then I hit another bump because we have managed.
Speaker B:I didn't want to go to every home to deliver a wheelchair.
Speaker B:I wanted to bring all these disabled children, adult youth in one place so they can see each other because they didn't know it's another disabled somewhere.
Speaker B:And in the end of the event, everyone was so happy to receive a wheelchair.
Speaker B:And I was most unhappy because I felt like everyone received a pair of shoes, regardless of their size, their shape, what kind they need.
Speaker B:So we decided to build a center for them.
Speaker B:So two years later, we built the first disabled center for children with special needs in north of Moldova.
Speaker B:And that's why I received a British Empire medal for the center.
Speaker B:And now the center is 20 years old and it's making difference to hundreds and thousands of children every day.
Speaker A:And Your comment about people eat healthy, I mean, why.
Speaker A:Why did you think that was true?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:You didn't see wheelchairs around, but maybe there's some truth to it.
Speaker A:Is it you feel.
Speaker B:No, it's a lot of disabled children and it's a lot of disabled people in Moldova, but I think in every single East European countries, they were hidden away.
Speaker B:Because in the uk, when I came to uk, you see these disabled people everywhere, because they're on a bus, they're in a school, they're in a workspace, you see people around.
Speaker B:So you thought Britain has more disabled people than Moldova does.
Speaker B:And that was my perception at the time.
Speaker B:And it's not.
Speaker B:Was not just my perception.
Speaker B:I used to work at White Salads.
Speaker B:We had colleagues from Latvia, from Lithuania, and we all thought the same photo.
Speaker B:British people, they have a lot of disabled in our countries.
Speaker B:We don't now.
Speaker B:I realize that we probably have more, but you don't see them around as much.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I mean, there's always that attitude slightly about how we deal.
Speaker A:We deal.
Speaker A:We do this with old people as well.
Speaker A:Disabled people.
Speaker A:We just sort of stick them in the cupboard.
Speaker A:We've had some amazing disabled guests talk about how, you know, they would almost be.
Speaker A:It would be assumed that they wouldn't work, it would be assumed that they wouldn't have a normal life.
Speaker A:And it's like, that's not the way it needs to be, you know.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B: In: Speaker B:So the children will go to school.
Speaker B:Disabled children.
Speaker A:How the hell have you got the legislation changed?
Speaker A:I mean, what's the population of Moldova, right?
Speaker B:3.5 million, but about a million now outside.
Speaker B:So more like 2.5 in Moldova left.
Speaker A:About a million have left, yes.
Speaker A:The immigration, where do they go to?
Speaker A:To Romania, mostly.
Speaker B:Not necessarily.
Speaker B:We have a huge diaspora in Italy.
Speaker B:We have quite a lot of people in.
Speaker B:In Britain, America, so it's pretty much everywhere.
Speaker B:We have a lot in Russian as well.
Speaker A:So, yes, it's one thing, you know, getting some hospital beds to Moldova, which, you know, I.
Speaker A:Clearly your husband indicates something about your character, a determinedness.
Speaker A:But it's another thing to go and get the law changed.
Speaker A:How did you manage that?
Speaker B:By knocking ON DOOR by don't take no for answer.
Speaker B:Connecting, thinking, whatever NGOs are working in the sector, connecting all of us, and keep Bringing positive changes.
Speaker B:For example, we used to say if disabled people will work, they will start paying taxes, they will contribute to society, they will not be burdened to society.
Speaker A:And just must be very persuasive.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker B:Over the years I sort of got my name as Mad Woman.
Speaker B:Pretty accurate.
Speaker A:What do you think drives you?
Speaker B:The changes.
Speaker B:I saw so much change in children's how and even the first time we started the charity and we took the first truck with aid on Christmas we sent two boys, two wheelchairs.
Speaker B:And when we delivered the first truck, me and John once they are making sure I'm coming from all over.
Speaker B:So I knew how bureaucracy and corruption was still embedded in the country.
Speaker B:So I wanted to make the preach very strong and make sure every piece of aid gets to where it needs to be.
Speaker B:Getting is not sold, it's not given, friendly, lost on the way.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:So we went to first truck and we went to the hospital and John was horrified.
Speaker B:We'd gone to the care home and in the end John said Victoria, this is.
Speaker B:We are two people.
Speaker B:We both have full time job.
Speaker B:We're never going to be able to change this country.
Speaker B:We've done, we've tried.
Speaker B:We brought you 30 beds.
Speaker B:Let's go home and carry on with our lives.
Speaker B:And as sad as I was to admit, he was right.
Speaker B:I said okay.
Speaker B:And we went back to my mom's village to see her.
Speaker B:And in that village was one of the wheelchairs with Christmas.
Speaker B:So he sent two wheelchairs on Christmas for two boys.
Speaker B:And this boy went into wheelchair.
Speaker B:He was so happy at nine years old, he never had a wheelchair.
Speaker B:He was born with disability.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker B:And he looked at John, John couldn't speak Romanian and.
Speaker B:But he thought John is British, he must have been his merit.
Speaker B:And he looked at John and said thank you for my first wheelchair.
Speaker B:Now I can see the trees outside.
Speaker B:Not just the leaves from my bedroom window.
Speaker A:Not just the leaves from my bedroom window.
Speaker B:And John couldn't understand but he saw that eyes like 9 years old boy's eyes, how happy they were.
Speaker B:And he looked at me choking and he said we have a choice.
Speaker B:I don't have.
Speaker B:Even if we help one Alexandra or two Alexandro per year will be two Alexandra more.
Speaker B:And he said while we have a choice, we don't stop.
Speaker B:And this sort of these messages and how much difference you can see in even in one child's life you can make then you cannot stop.
Speaker A:That's an amazing story, Victoria.
Speaker A:It's kind of.
Speaker A:There's so much we do every day isn't there to, you know, to see the impact you're making.
Speaker A:That was obviously supposed to happen.
Speaker A:Some would say, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:But that keeps driving you on.
Speaker A:Each one builds up.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:And then to the thorny question of, you know, donations and raising money.
Speaker A:How'd you go about it?
Speaker B:It's one thing I used to dislike most in running the projects and the charity, because you always feel like you're begging and even if you don't beg for yourself.
Speaker B:But over the years, I understood that you actually not asking for money, you're giving people opportunities to be part of something big.
Speaker B:So once you explain to people on your show that I am the person who believes, action speaks much louder than any words.
Speaker B:So that's why I'm trying to invite people to come to Moldova, see our project, see where your money goes, see what you've done.
Speaker B:Come and see.
Speaker B:We were the charity who sent the first truck.
Speaker B:We fade from UK when war in Ukraine started because we had all the infrastructure and logistics in place.
Speaker B:Our first truck, we paid for refugees once, eight days after war started and was followed by another 34 because we had everything in place and we had Counselors, we had MPs, we had different donors coming to see the projects where we're distributing date.
Speaker B:And this builds trust over the years.
Speaker B:And then the people understand that they are part of something much bigger than just giving money.
Speaker A:Do you mainly raise money from people in the uk?
Speaker B:No, we raise money from Moldovans across the world.
Speaker B:We raise money from the uk.
Speaker B:We raise money from our British donors who believe in us, who know about Moldova, who want to take part.
Speaker B:We raise money from trust and foundation, from companies who want to partnership with us.
Speaker B:So every single method of fundraising, including my book, was done in order to raise more money so I can finish the swimming pool for the home.
Speaker A:Because the uk, I think most British people wouldn't be able to tell you what continent Moldova was on.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:I don't even is in the relationship and the knowledge of Moldova.
Speaker A:The fascinating thing was, though, with the Ukrainian war, I thought is that.
Speaker A:That there's, you know, I think.
Speaker A:I think there's a couple of hundred armed conflicts in the world.
Speaker A:Some enormous number.
Speaker A:You know, maybe it's a hundred, but there's a lot of fights going on in the world.
Speaker A:Most of them we don't really know about.
Speaker A:But when Ukraine happened, there was an enormous emotional reaction here, you know, including for myself.
Speaker A:And I don't, you know, I know a couple of Ukrainian people vaguely, you Know, I don't really have a strong connection with it, but there was something about too close.
Speaker A:It's still far, but it must just be pure distance.
Speaker A:And Moldova's as.
Speaker A:As close as Ukraine.
Speaker B:You know, I was in Moldova when the conflict broke and I waked up in 6:13 that morning.
Speaker B:I'll never forget with the echo of the bombs because when they bombed all the airports first morning, they bombed all the airports in Ukraine.
Speaker B:You could hear them very nicely in Moldova.
Speaker B:So I waked up and that was because of the bomb.
Speaker B:So I was very close.
Speaker B:But yeah, the conflict in Ukraine was, I think it was very close to Europe.
Speaker B:That's why it's a little bit much more touching to everyone.
Speaker A:And is Moldova's aim to join the eu?
Speaker B:I guess, yes.
Speaker B:The government is fighting very hard now to join the eu.
Speaker B:We start again as building the experience I built over 13 years.
Speaker B:I am working quite close on social part, on health part with the government to help adhere to the European laws on these two departments.
Speaker B:But yes, the process of integration started.
Speaker B:So how long will it take?
Speaker B:We don't know because we are very volatile on the geopolitical side.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I mean it's the corruption thing and stuff, isn't it?
Speaker A:There's sort of so many things that have to come into line, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, the corruption is still there, but it's dying down quite significantly and it's quite nice.
Speaker B:But there are still, there are lots of Russian influence.
Speaker B:So we are going from four years to four years.
Speaker B:So next government you may have pro Russian government and then it's again step back, but hopefully it's not going to happen and we're going to have pro European government.
Speaker A:Well, we shouldn't be surprised that countries that sit between Russia and Europe are slightly torn between them.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, that's where the they sit.
Speaker A:Obviously donations is tricky to raise, but, you know, how can a charity or nonprofit like you build a better relationship with businesses, do you think?
Speaker B:I think from business point of view, I think the many businesses they offer shadow the.
Speaker B:They don't speak about the connection of the charities.
Speaker B:And it's two big things the businesses are missing in my view.
Speaker B:And we are on a business podcast.
Speaker B:So first of all, the businesses forget in many ways that the charity is a market too.
Speaker B:So the charities, they need to buy services now.
Speaker B:They need an accountant, they need a HR services.
Speaker B:So creating this kind of partnership, sometimes you might not just give funds, but you might give, sell services or donate some services and make a positive impact in the World, anywhere in where your heart is.
Speaker B:And another thing between businesses and charities, a mutual partnership.
Speaker B:So the charities will bring different.
Speaker B:From my experience, for example, we have.
Speaker B:I do like to put the businesses who are sponsoring us and supporting us around one table.
Speaker B:For example, we'll have someone from America, a guy who set up a business and is very successful, and someone from London and someone from Moldova.
Speaker B:And when you put them around on same table on a different networking events, they create a relation between them.
Speaker B:And I always joke, more relation and more businesses you'll create, more money you can donate to us.
Speaker A:But it's a great way to meet people effectively.
Speaker A:It's a nice framing, isn't it?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Rather than trying to go up to someone in a networking or even, you know, you're meeting someone around a table, all trying to help someone.
Speaker B:And the businesses, many businesses don't see this positive part.
Speaker B:They just think, okay, I'll give a thousand pounds.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:I'll get all.
Speaker B:I get anything or not.
Speaker A:Tax deduction.
Speaker A:You get a tax deduction.
Speaker A:You can donate as much of your profits as you want to charity.
Speaker A:Unfortunately, only British charities now.
Speaker A:But you are as well a British charity.
Speaker B:Yeah, British charity.
Speaker B:Yeah, we, we all, we have been British charities personally.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's very sad they've changed rules.
Speaker A:It used to be up until very recently, I think it's literally just changed.
Speaker A:I'd have to check the date, but it used to be you could donate to any international charity.
Speaker A:Now it's only British charities you can donate to.
Speaker A:But there we go.
Speaker B:But it's still.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a lot of beneficial collaboration between businesses and charities.
Speaker B:And again, every business can choose two or three charities or can choose one where it's their heart.
Speaker B:But you have to partner them correctly because if a partnership is not correct, then they will fall through.
Speaker A:And now a quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker A:Business without is brought to you by Ori Clark.
Speaker A: ancial and legal advice since: Speaker A:You can find us@oriclark.com Ori is spelled O U r Y.
Speaker A:Before we press on, just a quick reminder to come, come say hi on whatever social platform you like.
Speaker A:We're pretty much on all of them.
Speaker A:Just search for WB London.
Speaker A:I hear the same thing again and again about donating to charity.
Speaker A:People think, yeah, we should donate to charity.
Speaker A:I don't think that in this country there is any real sense of how much your profits.
Speaker A:You know, there's no, you know, there's a concept of the tithe from religion and stuff, you know, So I think, first of all, people don't have a sense of how much that they should donate.
Speaker A:But the real thing everyone always gets into discussing is, you know, it's very split opinions on what you should donate to.
Speaker A:A lot of people say, I don't want to donate to big charities.
Speaker A:You know, they waste so much money, you know, people could argue, well, hang on, if you're running a big charity, just like a big business, there's a lot of overhead and management when you're running the Red Cross or something, you know, yours would actually fit in a bracket that I imagine is more attractive, that it's like people want to give money and see results.
Speaker A:They want to know that they've given £1,000 and 900 of it has got where it needs to go.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Not 50 of it.
Speaker B:Me running a charity and setting up a charity, I somewhere in the middle.
Speaker B:Because for first six years of the charity life, I used to work in NHS for 20 nights on a trot in order to make two month of wages and then go and build the Phoenix center.
Speaker A:You'd work a double shift just in.
Speaker B:Order to run the charity.
Speaker B:Because my idea was every single penny has to go into the beneficiary and has to end up where I should end until six years later the trustee got together and said, no, we need to have at least one employee.
Speaker B:And they employed me.
Speaker B:I used to get like really, really little money.
Speaker B:But they said if.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We had a consultant who came and gave us two hours of free advice and say, if you die tomorrow, charity dies.
Speaker B:If there's no sustainability, if it's not the infrastructure in place, yes, there are big charities who, maybe they lost a side track with beneficiaries, I don't know.
Speaker B:But in the same time, we need those big charities to change the laws because they are very good in lobbying and changing the law for people, including for people who are donating in many cases, like human rights.
Speaker B:So we need both of them.
Speaker B:We need grassroots organization, but we need big charities too, in my view.
Speaker B:And the people how much you should donate, I think only what is in your heart.
Speaker B:Because if you donate from your heart, what would you like?
Speaker B:The money comes back.
Speaker B:It's very hard to explain, but every good thing you do and every money donates from different, in different ways will come back to you if you give it from your heart.
Speaker A:It's a karma theory, is it?
Speaker B:If you give from your heart, good.
Speaker A:Makes good and bad makes bad.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But if you donate because someone told you then I think it's not the same.
Speaker A:That's a very interesting spiritual answer to that question that you should.
Speaker A:But what I see happen is people go, well, we should donate to charity.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:And then which one?
Speaker A:And then you can get a bit stuck on that because there's sort of different views, isn't it?
Speaker A:But I mean, it's not that complicated to solve because you could say, well, right, you know, let's donate whatever £100,000.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:Let's pick 10 charities, we'll give 10 grand each.
Speaker B:But you are very privileged as a British donor, you are very privileged because you have Charity Commission or you can check the charities and you can see the impact.
Speaker B:In Moldova, I'm trying to introduce this law because Moldova still doesn't have a Charity commission, so we are under sort of Tax office.
Speaker B:And it's not.
Speaker B:They don't have this legislation so correctly put down, like Charity Commission does.
Speaker B:So if you are registered charity, any donors can go actually and check.
Speaker A:Very important to know that, yeah, you, you can go to Companies House and check the set of accounts, but then you go to the Charities Commission, you can check that it's a charity, you can see their report.
Speaker A:They have to write a report who the charity.
Speaker B:The Charity Commission report is much more detailed than the Company House one.
Speaker B:So the Charity Commission report.
Speaker B:And as a British donor, you are very privileged to have this, this sort of control where your money goes.
Speaker A:Well, it's part of how the system works.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, for, for, for all the faults we have of this country, you know, famously said, the British will put up with anything as long as they think it's fair.
Speaker A:And I think this sort of transparency is very important, you know, sort of the ability to see stuff.
Speaker A:And I mean, this, you know, if you can't find a charity you're thinking of donating to on Companies House, they, they now don't have to be on Companies House.
Speaker A:They now can register directly as what's called a cio, Charitable Incorporated organization, I think it is, with Charities Commission.
Speaker A:So, yeah, do check them out.
Speaker A:You can see what they spend their money on, what they do.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a really interesting comment that in other countries, you don't know.
Speaker A:I think I, I think we're not really talking about there.
Speaker A:A business can of all, of course, give their money directly to the charity and make sure it's doing what it's doing.
Speaker A:I think there's, there's some other elements of charities, how they have to raise money.
Speaker A:Stopping people on the street knocking on your door, that's a slightly more uncomfortable bit of it.
Speaker A:And you never, I mean, even if they're wearing a badge, you never really know what's going on.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It's kind of.
Speaker A:It actually.
Speaker A:I'm gonna get into trouble for saying this, but it's a bit of.
Speaker A:The British aren't very good at confrontation in those circumstances or telling people.
Speaker A:So we end up being slightly emotionally blackmailed into like, well, just take some money or whatever.
Speaker B:Think the fundraising regulator and start to regulate those things much more now.
Speaker A:Because I think it creates the wrong.
Speaker A:I think what you said is a beautiful way of putting it.
Speaker A:Give from your heart.
Speaker A:And I think, I think as a country, we're not very good at it.
Speaker A:They're very good in Texas, apparently, because the American, you know, in Texas, they have this attitude, if you become successful, you must give to charity.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:We have to work on it as part of our sort of mantra.
Speaker A:You know, we have to a, accept the basic premise that everything can't be solved by the government and tax and the government, much as maybe they should be.
Speaker A:Theoretically, some people feel that they should do it all.
Speaker A:It's just not going to happen.
Speaker A:And then there's.
Speaker A:I mean, certainly the government's not going to be helping in Moldova.
Speaker A:But, you know, I think.
Speaker A:And I, I just love how you framed it.
Speaker A:You know, give from.
Speaker A:Give from your heart.
Speaker B:I think if we took quite.
Speaker B:We trust you.
Speaker B:We worked hard and we sort of analyzed and it's proven, even if businesses were started and they came to me and said, oh, since we started becoming part of donating, the more contracts came up and we.
Speaker B:You can see how people are developing.
Speaker B:But I think if your heart is to help someone with cancer, you should help someone with cancer.
Speaker B:If your heart is to help the dog society, you should help the dog society.
Speaker B:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:If when you donate from your heart to the cause, it's close to you, yes, I would love everyone to donate to meditate, but I know it's not going to happen because disability and health, health, part of what we do is not close to everyone's heart, but the people should donate where their heart it is because they will see the impact, they will see the difference and the energy will come back to them.
Speaker A:And why do you think some people sort of hesitate to engage with charities?
Speaker A:And what would you say to encourage them to get involved?
Speaker B:It's most of the reasons you mentioned earlier.
Speaker B:So it's trust issues.
Speaker B:So the people lost the trust, especially the big organization where they fail badly is when the conflict starts.
Speaker B:So like for example in Ukraine, when I said we manage it because we are on the ground, we managed to send aid eight days, they managed to send aid with one, two months.
Speaker B:Because there's so many layers in order to.
Speaker B:Yes, they send much more aid than we did.
Speaker B:But this, I think where the trust is start getting lost.
Speaker B:How do I encourage people just by showing the results.
Speaker B:So I still think action speaks louder than any words and I try to show the results, show where money goes, be transparent about this.
Speaker B:If we need to get another person to employ, we will sort of ask our main donors, what do you think?
Speaker B:Can we afford it?
Speaker B:Can we afford it?
Speaker B:But I think just being transparent and show the results.
Speaker A:And you have.
Speaker A:You have some donors that give all the time to you that you sort of.
Speaker B:Yes, we have monthly donors who've been with us for, since the beginning, for 13 years.
Speaker B:We have yearly donors like the companies who are supporting us and then we are trying to build that donor database still.
Speaker A:How's John think it's to going?
Speaker A:Going?
Speaker B:He's living more in Moldova with me now than in uk and he loved.
Speaker A:You live in both places, do you?
Speaker B:Yeah, we travel a lot because we try to make sure, still 13 years later, that every single penny goes where I should go.
Speaker B:Especially when the refurbishment projects.
Speaker B:We are taking the UK standards.
Speaker B:We still don't have a proper healthcare standards, how the hospital should look like.
Speaker B:So we are working closely with Illawide Hospital, where we have a very long relationship and pinching the ideas, checking the ST standards from here.
Speaker B:Obviously they're public and so we are dividing ourselves between two countries.
Speaker B:But John is very proud.
Speaker B:But he wouldn't say.
Speaker B:He likes to stay in the shadow, he doesn't like to go on the cameras, he just likes to observe, help and be there when it's needed.
Speaker A:What are the doctors like in Moldova?
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker B:I'm not saying the British doctors are no good, but from day one when I was in uk.
Speaker B:So if we have conditions of British hospitals and Moldova doctors, we can have a perfect health case.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Well, I'm sure they're all there.
Speaker B:I mean, considering with which equipment they're working with, in which conditions they're working, they are doing the wonders.
Speaker A:It's such a giant subject, isn't it?
Speaker A:There must be a regulatory body for medicine.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:We do have.
Speaker B:We have like people who are checking the social services if they provide it correctly.
Speaker B:We have people who checking the Medical, but it's still very, very big gaps that they didn't think was needed.
Speaker A:It's like you say that it's sort of, you became a little lost as a country with leadership and identity.
Speaker A:I mean, sounds like Britain anyway.
Speaker A:But when, back when it was Russian in the 80s and things like that.
Speaker A:Was the health care okay?
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker B:I remember my mom was a nurse, so I remember and she used to say I was extremely strict but was extremely good.
Speaker B:And even now the doctors who, who done the studies, we have doctors who done the studies in western countries like Italy, like Germany, like Britain and they had studies from Russian as well.
Speaker B:They said the Russian Moscow University was very good in, in teaching healthcare on like different complicated surgeries.
Speaker B:So the healthcare was good, but the equipment was very poor.
Speaker B:Very.
Speaker A:I think it's serious medicine.
Speaker A:I think, I think that's the sort of thing we've, we've, we've ended up treating it like customer service.
Speaker A:But I mean, I remember talking to my mum who's a nurse and she was saying how she was told she had to lose weight and my mom was never massive, but as in like when.
Speaker A:And I was like, you can't say that to someone.
Speaker A:I said, well, they bloody did back then.
Speaker A:She said I was terrified of Matron.
Speaker A:I said, well, why did you need to lose weight?
Speaker A:And she said, because you got to be fit.
Speaker A:It's a very physical job being a nurse.
Speaker A:And back then it was run like a army kind of thing.
Speaker A:And it's a bit like, you know, you come see the doctor, doctor says, do you smoke?
Speaker A:Yes, I do.
Speaker A:Well, if you don't stop smoking, it's going to kill you.
Speaker A:People get annoyed.
Speaker A:They're like, well, I don't want that.
Speaker A:Give me a drug for my lungs, you know.
Speaker A:And it's like this sort of customer service, like you're in McDonald's, you know, and they said you got to have a Big Mac and you wanted a Quarter Pounder.
Speaker A:It's like, no, this is medicine like, you know, and doctors used to be sort of gods and nurses would be tough on you, you know.
Speaker A:And actually I think that's probably some of the frustration of where we've got to with the system here, that it's a sort of patient driven care and everything.
Speaker A:And actually you should feel bloody lucky to get good quality medical care, you know, and respect what the doctor says.
Speaker A:You and do what you're told, you know, if you want help, it's correct.
Speaker B:And it's been overused.
Speaker B:System has been overused.
Speaker B:This is another I worked in NHS for many years, right.
Speaker B:Many about nine years and I saw it going down the hill quite fast and was when you came in, you think it's a five star hotel and then you see the gaps here too.
Speaker B:But there was gaps in my eyes was nothing.
Speaker B:But as you say, the doctors and the nurses were not as respected as they should have been, in my view.
Speaker A:I don't know it's going to change.
Speaker A:You know, they were very.
Speaker A:Because during coronavirus everyone was like, the clapping thing is a controversial thing amongst the medical community because it's sort of.
Speaker A:Everyone came out and clapped and then went back to slagging them off a year later.
Speaker A:You know, it's like, oh, you respect us when you need us, sort of thing.
Speaker A:But we definitely need a shift change in.
Speaker A:I don't know, it's again, it's sort of education, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's sort of.
Speaker B:People forgot.
Speaker B:I think it's worldwide.
Speaker B:People forgot to be thankful.
Speaker B:I think this is my analogy.
Speaker B:I think people forgot to be thankful for.
Speaker B:They always want something that they don't know what.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like the idea that you get a bill every time you leave, but it's paid.
Speaker A:So it's like, by the way, way you've been here for two weeks, it actually costs £150,000 credit as a UK citizen.
Speaker A:But here's the bill.
Speaker A:I like that we got to be more aware because we have no idea.
Speaker B:I like this for Moldova too and probably I can implement that there.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, it's one of my many silly ideas.
Speaker A:You can have that one for free.
Speaker A:But do we value things we get for free?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I mean, do you find people in Moldova are grateful for the medical care?
Speaker A:More.
Speaker A:More.
Speaker B:I think people are thankful for what they get, especially for people who.
Speaker B:Who have been abroad.
Speaker B:So if people manage to wait for three hours ambulance in uk where they want to be ambulance in A and had to wait two, three hours in the line, they know in Moldova they can cut that line.
Speaker B:So I think when they saw the different healthcare system somewhere else, I think they appreciate Moldova one better.
Speaker B:But they don't have the infrastructure of any it.
Speaker B:This is where we come in and.
Speaker A:What next you feel for mad aid?
Speaker B:I launched this this year, this ambitious goal, an ambitious project.
Speaker B:I am aiming for 100,000 people who can donate €1, €1 each.
Speaker B:This is where we're aiming for and this will help us in five, seven years to refurbish every single word.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker A:One pound each a month.
Speaker B:A month.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, you've, you've, you've heard, you've heard it here.
Speaker A:I mean, you, you go to the website, I assume, do you?
Speaker A:And you can sign up for that now?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's very easy to sign up.
Speaker B:We are trying to send every month the full report.
Speaker B:If we don't manage to do a report, we'll send one in two months or two months.
Speaker B:But we try monthly to send the report to see where your money goes.
Speaker B:But I think that that is sustainability for long term, because a pound doesn't change a life to anyone, so you're not going to miss a pound.
Speaker B:But to connect 100,000 people to donate a pound will make huge difference for our project.
Speaker B:And this is, is my next big ambitious goal.
Speaker B:So If I connect 100,000 people to donate a pound, then I can concentrate to run the projects, to make a difference, to recycle, to save.
Speaker B:Because we have hospitals coming across the country offering us equipment and in many cases you have to say no because.
Speaker A:You can't afford to get the trucks to get it there to pay the transport.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Now we are shipping 200 beds from Holland out of 650, because this is only how much money we had for trucks.
Speaker B:We emptied the Wales Nightingale Hospital was done, never been used for Covid and they give us three, three weeks to empty it and I sent five trucks and in the end we ended up, needed 10 trucks.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:This is one of the hospitals they built during COVID was it?
Speaker A:Which one?
Speaker B:Nightingale in Wales.
Speaker A:Nightingale in Wales.
Speaker B:Half of them on to Moldova and half of my month to Ukraine.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Pledge one pound a month, 100,000 people, and then you can sort of.
Speaker A:Yeah, you can get it to a better place.
Speaker A:Well, amazing, amazing work trying to sort of redevelop these things.
Speaker A:What's the best piece of advice you've been given?
Speaker B:Expect nothing from anyone.
Speaker B:So when I started the charity, I expected the people, especially Moldovans, they will jump to the opportunity they all think is so.
Speaker B:And no one understood what I'm doing and no one.
Speaker B:Everyone thought, what do you get out of it?
Speaker A:What's in it for me?
Speaker B:Yeah, what you're doing, why are you doing this?
Speaker B:And one of the trustee at the time, he told me, don't expect anything from anyone because everyone has.
Speaker B:They are cultural experience, their geographical knowledge.
Speaker B:They are like, they've been growing in different environments.
Speaker B:So it's not about you, it's about them.
Speaker B:But don't expect them.
Speaker B:I think that was very helpful Especially in the world in.
Speaker B:In the industry.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's good advice.
Speaker A:Although you you are hoping for something from them.
Speaker A:Occasionally some donations I guess.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:What's your top three tips for entrepreneurs or other founders?
Speaker A:What would you say to someone?
Speaker B:Build your team from day one when you have time.
Speaker B:Because even if you think you don't have money at that time, you have time.
Speaker B:And when you build the team you will grow much further.
Speaker B:You may grow faster if you go by yourself and you may think you make money.
Speaker B:But over the time when you will need people, you will then have time to teach them.
Speaker B:And this is a mistake I've done and I wouldn't suggest to anyone to do regardless if you run a business or a charity or a project, build your team from that one.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's nice.
Speaker A:You've got time at the beginning, you.
Speaker B:Have a time, you learn together, you grow together and it's a ways you can find a way to to build it from even if you start with one or two people.
Speaker B:Another good advice will be networking.
Speaker B:Just learn from others who already done the thing.
Speaker B:So don't repeat the same mistake.
Speaker B:So do this via networking, via books, via podcast.
Speaker B:Learn from other people mistakes so you'll avoid a lot of of them.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Any others?
Speaker B:Think big.
Speaker B:People are terrified to think big when they start.
Speaker B:I started a charity and the people trustee thought we're going to send free trucks with ad and I think six, seven months later I came in this Phoenix center complex and I put a big plans on the table and we had £750 in a bank account at the time and I came with 1 million pound project.
Speaker B:I wanted to build this center.
Speaker B:They were terrified and they were scared but they didn't and pour cold water over my vision and they let me develop that vision and I'm very grateful for them.
Speaker B:But there are people who are worried to think big.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's hard to think big.
Speaker A:Don't know why.
Speaker A:Is there anything in bullshit in the industry?
Speaker B:Yeah, too much personal development.
Speaker B:I think lately what is good in.
Speaker A:A measure too much personal development.
Speaker A:What does personal development mean to you?
Speaker B:I think everyone trying to teach you something and people think if I haven't done hundreds trainings I'm not good in business business but actually a good entrepreneur and good business person is started from instinct started from to solve a problem is either solve his financial problem or he wants to become free of or solve a problem in society.
Speaker B:And when you start going to thinking if you go to 100 trainings you come to become rich overnight.
Speaker B:And it's not happening because you learn one system and then you go to next training, different system and this kind of big personal development brand is going on at the moment.
Speaker B:I think thing is damaging a lot of people who are good in business.
Speaker B:I self taught myself to run a charity but I self taught the needs.
Speaker B:Like for example, when I built the Phoenix, I never knew nothing about construction but when I started the charity I knew nothing about fundraising.
Speaker B:So I took fundraising courses and read fundraising books.
Speaker B:When I started an open Phoenix overnight I thought it's done, my job is done.
Speaker B:And overnight I end up with 16 employees who needed wages, who needed training and, and I had to learn how to become a manager, how to become a CEO.
Speaker B:So I start reading and training in different areas.
Speaker A:But you did a lot of personal development therefore.
Speaker B:And I learned what I needed at time.
Speaker A:Oh, don't just sort of feel you've got to learn all this general stuff, learn what you need to know when you need to know.
Speaker B:I saw so many business people, even from Moldova, they going to the training thinking this training is going to solve all my problems and they don't apply any of the training in their current business because it's not relevant.
Speaker B:If you don't go to a training, it's relevant and, and I think that it's a little bit too much.
Speaker B:I think it's a little bit of it anyway.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a great answer.
Speaker A:I mean, is there anything else you find bullshitty?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:My biggest challenge in running a charity was to prove people it's possible to be done.
Speaker B:So everyone keeps saying it's not possible.
Speaker B:Why do you not stay in the job?
Speaker B:Why do you start it?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:So again, in a business a lot of people tell you around, in my, in my area was 99% of people around me told me don't do this and I've done it anyway, anyway.
Speaker B:But when you have a business and when you start a business and then people come to say, well don't, it's already someone there in industry, you're not going to be better.
Speaker B:And this is discouraging.
Speaker B:So I suggest, this is one big bullshit of businesses, but I suggest to business people just follow your heart and do your best and don't listen to people around, don't speak about your ideas with people who will discourage you.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker A:It's a bit like get out of the room if you're the cleverest person in it.
Speaker A:But I think there's a lot of truth in the that.
Speaker A:Well, you've been an absolute delight, Victoria.
Speaker A:Thank you for sharing your amazing story.
Speaker A:So if people want to find out more, you go to Mad Aid, which is mad-aid aid.org.uk please give help these people, help people in Moldova and further afield.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker A:So that was this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit.
Speaker A:And we'll be back next Wednesday.
Speaker A:Until then, is ciao.
