Episode 389
If you want to be a better leader, get yourself into therapy
EP 389 - This week we meet Elizabeth Varley. As founder and former CEO of Tech Hub she has played a pivotal role in shaping London’s Tech scene. In her role with the UK Government’s Global Entrepreneur Program she continues to influence our start and scale up business culture today.
As you’d expect she has a lot of hot tips for founders, some of which we weren’t expecting. Such as “undergoing therapy will make you a better leader”.
Fantastic chat from someone who is able to come at your business growing pains in unexpected ways.
*For Apple Podcast chapters, access them from the menu in the bottom right corner of your player*
Spotify Video Chapters:
00:00 BWB with Elizabeth Varley
01:26 Andy's intro to Elizabeth
02:18 Elizabeth's Early Career and Lessons Learned
09:28 Elizabeth's Role in the Global Entrepreneur Program
13:13 Challenges and Opportunities in Global Expansion
21:41 Brexit and Its Impact on Entrepreneurs
23:55 Fostering the UK Ecosystem
24:22 International Investment Trends
26:27 Opportunities in Sustainability
27:56 The AI Hype and Reality
29:23 Journey to Becoming a Deal Maker
32:34 Founding Tech Hub
38:53 The Importance of Therapy for Founders
44:44 Advice for Entrepreneurs
47:43 Wrap Up
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Transcript
When there's something that you really believe, I think you've got to really go for it.
Speaker A:And you asked, you know how, how do you do that?
Speaker A:And I think the answer is therapy.
Speaker B:You're meaning literal therapy.
Speaker A:Literal therapy.
Speaker A:If you're repeating patterns over and over because you don't understand yourself well enough, then it's a huge risk to your business.
Speaker A:When you are doing work to understand yourself better, you become a better leader, you become a better business.
Speaker B:I think the attitude to sustainability is just so mixed now.
Speaker A:I'm seeing far more acceptance of it as a massive business opportunity and there is so much opportunity for innovation.
Speaker B:I'm all up for Entrepreneur Island.
Speaker B:As someone put it to me, just make it super attractive for that 5% of people who are like that and they'll just come and just build businesses like crazy and jobs will fly and off we go.
Speaker A:For the UK to play on a global stage in the technology industry, we needed something that brought everybody together and gave founders access to the things that they needed to be more successful.
Speaker A:And that was how Tech Hub was born.
Speaker B:Hi and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.
Speaker B:We're here to help the founders, entrepreneurs, business owners, anyone who wrestles with the job of being in char.
Speaker B:And if you like what we do here, please rate and review us on Spotify and Apple and come say hi on YouTube if you fancy watching us in action.
Speaker B:Links are in the episode description or just search for WBLondon.
Speaker B:This week's guest is Elizabeth Varley.
Speaker B:As founder and former CEO of Tech Hub, she's played a pivotal role in shaping London's tech scene and had a massive impact on entrepreneurs in general.
Speaker B:Elizabeth is full of hot tips and advice for founders and entrepreneurs such as focus on what you want to achieve in life as well as business.
Speaker B:It will make you better at your job, create a clear vision and culture for your business so you stay aligned as you grow no matter where in the world you are based.
Speaker B:And get yourself into therapy.
Speaker B:It will help you to shut out unnecessary noise, learn to trust your gut and make you a better leader.
Speaker B:She also has some great points about how the UK government can continue to support entrepreneurs and why Net zero is a massive business opportunity for founders.
Speaker B:After all, solving real world problems through innovation is what entrepreneurs do.
Speaker B:Check it out.
Speaker B:I am Andy Ury and today we are joined by Elizabeth Varley.
Speaker B:Elizabeth is an award winning serial entrepreneur, board advisor and ecosystem builder.
Speaker B:She spent over two decades helping founders grow and helping their businesses innovate globally as a Founder and former CEO of Tech Hub alongside advising Governments and working with the likes of Google and bt, Elizabeth has played a pivotal role in shaping London's tech scene and scaling startup communities across the world.
Speaker B:Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:We're going to warm up with, you know, warm up my elocution as well, with just a quick far round just to get to know you a little bit better, ask you a series of questions.
Speaker B:You should know the answer to these.
Speaker B:Bit of luck.
Speaker B:Dee's queuing some music.
Speaker B:And we're off.
Speaker B:So what was your first job, Elizabeth?
Speaker A:First job was working for my dad in his shoe store in Melbourne.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:When I was, I don't know, probably 10 years old or something, I would get two doll for a Saturday morning and actually learned a lot.
Speaker A:Not just about measuring feet and shoes and things, but how to make sure that you're making a profit margin on the cost of your stock and all that kind of thing.
Speaker A:So it was actually a really useful entree into the world of business, those.
Speaker B:Early formative experiences where people have worked in family businesses and stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's amazing how formative they are for you.
Speaker B:And what was your worst job?
Speaker A:Probably one of my first temp jobs when I first came to London when I was 22 and I had a admin temp job and there was nothing for me to do and I just, I can't stand sitting and twiddling my thumbs.
Speaker A:It was just really tedious.
Speaker A:I kept asking for work and they didn't really have anything for me to do.
Speaker B:And big company was it.
Speaker A:It was a big company.
Speaker B:They didn't even know.
Speaker A:They really did.
Speaker B:They have no idea.
Speaker B:They had no idea what anyone's doing.
Speaker B:And the funny thing is when you ask people if they got enough to do, they always say, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I'm very busy.
Speaker B:I don't know what it is.
Speaker B:It's sort of psychology if you don't want to feel useless, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't like having nothing to do.
Speaker B:Fair enough.
Speaker B:Favorite subject at school.
Speaker A:I think it's, it's a toss up between psychology, literature and geography.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:I got to do psychology.
Speaker A:Yeah, you got to do great subjects at school.
Speaker A:It was great.
Speaker A:Psychology was really interesting because you learn about why people are the way they are or why people do the things that they do.
Speaker A:I really love, loved that.
Speaker A:It was about understanding ourselves, understanding people.
Speaker B:It's so fascinating.
Speaker B:And it was still unraveling so much of it.
Speaker B:What's your special skill, Elizabeth?
Speaker A:My special skill?
Speaker A:Problem solving.
Speaker B:Problem solving.
Speaker A:Very nice.
Speaker A:I think of a load of different options straight away, work through them all really quickly and then think of the unusual thing, the different thing, the lateral move.
Speaker A:And I think it makes me good at spotting gaps in markets, thinking about product ideas, that kind of thing.
Speaker B:Are you dyslexic?
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker B:That sounded like the dyslexic mind.
Speaker B:Well, you.
Speaker B:It's quite much harder to spot in ladies.
Speaker B:You might be.
Speaker B:And you don't realize because it sounds.
Speaker B:Sounds a little on that level.
Speaker B:But, yeah, you don't have.
Speaker B:You don't have to be a bad speller to be able to do that.
Speaker B:And what did you want to be when you grew up?
Speaker A:I think originally when I was a little kid, probably a ballerina, I used to dance when I was little, but then I was really interested in becoming a biochemist, was really interested in going into medical science.
Speaker A:And then I discovered that you could write for a living and talk to people for a living and that just.
Speaker A:Yeah, that.
Speaker A:That then took over.
Speaker B:Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker B:And what did your parents want you to be?
Speaker A:I think that my mum thought I was going to be a good lawyer because I'm really good at arguing.
Speaker A:I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
Speaker A:I don't know if she thought it was a good thing at the time.
Speaker B:Barrister, then you want to be, Actually, technically, yeah.
Speaker A:I think she thought I was going to go and argue in courtrooms and I think my dad actually would have been really happy for me to be a musician.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker A:Yeah, he really liked that I went into business and we could talk about business.
Speaker A:Although I don't think he understood what it was that I did something with computers, he would say.
Speaker A:But he was originally a musician before he went into business.
Speaker A:And I think he kind of.
Speaker B:Musician, was he?
Speaker A:Well, he played guitar and he was a singer and he.
Speaker A:He used to be one of the sort of dancing, singing, backing folks for one of those variety shows in Melbourne.
Speaker B:Then he noticed they needed shoes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And turned to that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The shoe business was actually his dad's, which was his dad's uncle's, originally.
Speaker A:And so it came down to the family.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:What's your go to karaoke song?
Speaker B:Do any karaoke I had.
Speaker A:I'm not really a big karaoke person, though.
Speaker A:I have.
Speaker A:I have been known to karaoke.
Speaker A:I think my favorite song would probably be Ain't Misbehavin if I'm singing by myself.
Speaker A:But I think, yeah, more often than not, I'm actually doing a duet of a whole new World from Aladdin.
Speaker B:Whole new world from Aladdin.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:God, I'm really excited about.
Speaker A:I've done that a few times now.
Speaker A:I did that at an amazing dive bar in San Francisco with a big group of people.
Speaker A:It was great fun.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:This one?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I do Princess Jasmine.
Speaker A:Although I can do both parts.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Brilliant.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker B:You heard it here first.
Speaker B:Well, probably not.
Speaker B:Office dogs, business or bullshit?
Speaker A:Absolutely business.
Speaker A:When we were running Tech Hub, we used to have loads of dogs in the office and have areas that weren't so dog friendly for people who are not so dog friendly.
Speaker A:But it actually opened the doors to various different pets to come in.
Speaker A:So we had a tortoise that would come in on occasion and a duck that actually hung out in the office all the time.
Speaker A:You wouldn't think that that would be very compatible with office life, but we told the member that as long as you replace the carpet in your office when you go, then it's fine.
Speaker B:What's your vice?
Speaker A:I want to say yes to everything.
Speaker A:And when you're a founder, that's really tricky.
Speaker A:And, you know, in life you've got to corral your focus to do the things that you need to do.
Speaker A:So I think it's.
Speaker A:I've had to learn to say no more often, but apart from that, I love playing a game on my phone occasionally in my downtime.
Speaker A:It's like a sense of achievement with absolutely nothing at stake.
Speaker A:Candy Crush, or I used to play Candy Crush.
Speaker A:I'm playing Carnival Tycoon moment.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is weird and very.
Speaker A:There's a lot going on, but it's quite nice to just sort of do something and then you can just shut it off and it's done and.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But I don't really know if, if.
Speaker A:If I do it often enough to call it advice.
Speaker B:So, Elizabeth, what are you doing at the moment?
Speaker A:At the moment, I am not building business myself.
Speaker A:Right now I'm between businesses, though I definitely have another one or two or how many in me.
Speaker A:And so I'm helping other founders realize their goals with a couple of different hats on.
Speaker A:So sometimes I generally advise on growth strategy, and so sometimes that means sitting on their boards or working as an advisor with founders on their companies.
Speaker A:And I'm also a deal maker for the UK government's Global Entrepreneur Program, which means they fund my work with a small number of international founders each year who want to expand their business to the UK so that the business and the founder gets the support for free.
Speaker B:Open us up to that world, I imagine people probably don't even know, a lot of people don't know exist is what is this deal maker business?
Speaker A:So the Global Entrepreneur Program, it's a program that's been running for 20 years, this year actually, through the Department for Business and Trade.
Speaker A:And it's quite unique in government because it uses people like me, experienced founders who've built companies, who've scaled them internationally, and then we work to support founders who want to expand their business into the uk.
Speaker A:So it's like having a sort of light touch board level advisor, specifically with this part of your growth challenge, to help you access the things that you need.
Speaker B:And I would need to be an overseas business coming to the uk.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:To take advantage of that particular program.
Speaker B:Well, how do I get on this program and what do I get?
Speaker B:I get some advice.
Speaker B:Do I get something else?
Speaker A:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A:So the way it works, it's a selective program, so we invite people to apply.
Speaker A:And so how you usually works is I'm introduced to a company, they approach me, I meet them at an event like London Tech Week or something like that, and they talk about what their plans are for UK expansion.
Speaker A:We talk about some of their challenges and the goals that they have.
Speaker A:And then I chat through the kind of support that I can help them with and what that usually looks like, whether I'm working privately with companies, which might often be UK companies, but for the Global Entrepreneur Program, it's always international companies outside the uk.
Speaker A:The way I work is I ask the right questions, I help solve problems, I make connections.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And that looks different for each sort of company.
Speaker A:And so the Global Entrepreneur Program isn't a traditional accelerator style program where you do your 12 weeks of, you know, going through a process.
Speaker A:The companies that we work with are beyond that stage.
Speaker A:So it's about sitting down with a founder and saying, right, what are the sort of the next five or ten things you need to do?
Speaker A:What are the things that are difficult?
Speaker A:What do you need access to?
Speaker A:And I can help them access those things by making connections, by making introductions or it might be sitting down and looking at their UK go to market strategy and talking that through and poking holes in it and asking them questions and offering suggestions.
Speaker A:It might be talking about their team strategy and sort of trying to figure.
Speaker B:Out what do you tap into other team members on global mobility.
Speaker B:So Global Entrepreneur Program, there's other, there's other specialists you share between you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we all as founders ourselves have broad networks and things.
Speaker A:And so I will connect the founders that I work with to people that I know.
Speaker A:And if I don't know someone, then usually one of the other deal makers will.
Speaker A:So I connect folks to all sorts of different firms and organizations to help them get answers to the questions they need, access to the services they need and help them on that growth journey.
Speaker B:What do you think the biggest mistake people make expanding globally?
Speaker A:I think one of the biggest challenges is when founders haven't put the right team or the right processes or structure in place in their existing business to allow them the space to step laterally into a new market.
Speaker A:Obviously they're still going to be focusing on the existing business, the existing markets, but you need that time and resource to be able to focus on going into that new market.
Speaker A:And when your team doesn't really understand what to do, how to continue on with what they're doing, if you're not there, that becomes a really big risk for the company.
Speaker B:Is it just sort of fundamental now that we all go global?
Speaker B:I mean it depends what country you come from.
Speaker B:You've got roots in Australia, so I assume you have roots that lead that direction.
Speaker B:In Australia is not a tiny market, but it's smallish so therefore the nature is they're looking overseas.
Speaker B:Yeah, quite early on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So yeah, as you say, I'm, I'm from Melbourne originally, so I speak Australian and I, I work with a lot of Australia and New Zealand companies supporting them to come over here though I work with companies from all around the world but I do a of lot with Australian companies and particularly for Australian companies, the, the first question is often I need to grow bigger so I know that I need to expand.
Speaker A:Should I be doing that into the UK or the us?
Speaker A:My answer is always both.
Speaker B:Yeah, but and really it's the list.
Speaker B:I mean that's my experience that there's a real triangle with Australia, uk, us.
Speaker B:But yeah, they don't, you know, there's not other places they're not thinking or shouldn't I be going to China or wherever?
Speaker A:Well, they're also looking at Asia Pacific, but it depend on what the business is and the ease of going into a new market.
Speaker A:So if you're going into a new big market for the first time after your home market being Australia or maybe Australia, New Zealand, you want to go for a big market with the path of least resistance.
Speaker A:And so that means they're looking at two big English speaking countries with the UK and the us.
Speaker A:And my answer being you should definitely do both comes with the caveat that depending on your business and depending on the sector that you're in, you really should come to the UK first because it's easier, you get more support, the business environment is more similar, the legal environment is more similar, which you and your team know about, of course.
Speaker A:And so come to the uk, make that an easier process and then use the UK as your springboard into the US after you have that learning and that experience and the UK government and other organizations here to support you to go into the U.S.
Speaker A:i mean, Paul.
Speaker B:Webster, our mutual friend who you know, as I see.
Speaker B:Yeah, he would say the same thing.
Speaker B:He would say for Aussies and Kiwis.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The logical first step is the uk.
Speaker B:I mean there's so many connected routes.
Speaker B:They've probably got friends, family here.
Speaker B:But as you, I mean, as we joked before we got on air, the.
Speaker B:I always say, you know, you could stick Melbourne and London together and not.
Speaker B:No one would really notice, you know.
Speaker B:And I mean that culturally that there's actually just an incredible, a lot in common.
Speaker B:And probably it's made me over my life quite, quite pro Commonwealth and quite defensive of my Australian Kiwi cousins that I find Britain can rather forget about at times because we've become so much.
Speaker B:Or we're European, you're European and it's like, I think you quite appreciate how close we are.
Speaker B:God, what was I reading last night in bed?
Speaker B:Australia.
Speaker B: It was: Speaker B:Australia.
Speaker B: but stopped being a colony in: Speaker B:You know, I, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure I read that last night.
Speaker B:I was like, God, that's recent.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's so recent.
Speaker B:That's like my granddad's generation, you know, it was a colony, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:White Australian history is very tied to the UK and it's interesting, you put.
Speaker B:The word in white, which you must do now with the aboriginal side of things.
Speaker B:Is that where you frame it like that?
Speaker A:Well, in indigenous Australian culture goes back tens of thousands of years and you know, when we talk about Australia, it's really important that we don't just focus on the Eurocentric nature of Australia.
Speaker A:And indigenous Australians have been there for a very long time and continue to be there.
Speaker A:And it is unceded land from them.
Speaker A:So we're all just guests.
Speaker B:The principle being the Aussies or certainly European based Australians will look to the u look to expand to enumerate market.
Speaker B:The UK offers perhaps an easier place to come and do business.
Speaker B:You then sit in the global Entrepreneur program which effectively oils the wheels and provides some education about that.
Speaker A:Just that, that support.
Speaker A:If, if you're going to do something new, isn't it nice to have someone who can be your sort of point person as your first port of call to ask questions of.
Speaker A:And even if they don't know the answer, they'll be able to put you in touch with somebody who does.
Speaker A:And so really that's my role in a similar sort of way to the way I work with UK companies and others, is what can I offer from my own experience and knowledge, but who can I connect you to that furthers your goals?
Speaker B:And your program is part of the dbt.
Speaker B:So it's not a London centric program?
Speaker A:No, no, it's national.
Speaker A:So, yeah, the Department for Business and Trade works with companies both coming into the UK and also supporting UK companies to expand internationally.
Speaker A:And we work with companies that want to land into the UK all over the country, which is great.
Speaker A:So I expected that because I'm London based, I might land a lot of my companies in London, but it really depends on where's the best location for them, where are their customers, where is their talent pool?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, out of interest, whether the towns.
Speaker B:Do you see Australians go to Australia?
Speaker B:You know, taking that thread, it varies.
Speaker A:Hugely and I think it depends on the needs of the business and the sector they're focused on, but also sometimes the goals of the individual founders.
Speaker A:So for some founders, if they want to come to the uk, they are really motivated by the idea of living in a large city like London.
Speaker A:And for others, it's all about, well, I want to be close to where my customers are and they're all, say, in the Midlands, so that's where we need to be.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Looking at the UK as a whole, do you think it's doing enough to stay competitive?
Speaker A:I think we can always.
Speaker A:We can always do more.
Speaker A:I think that making it easy for companies to hire people from anywhere around the world is really important.
Speaker A:Making it easier for entrepreneurs to come here is really important.
Speaker A:Visas, really now, visas.
Speaker B:And there is a visa program that's sort of connected to your program, isn't there?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We do endorse the Innovator founder visa for companies that are coming onto the program.
Speaker A:So that gives the founder three years in the UK and then can be extended and can contribute to settlement and citizenship and that sort of thing.
Speaker A:And a lot of.
Speaker A:A lot of the founders that we work with don't need the visa if they might have British citizenship already or something like that, or if they're coming over and hiring a senior team immediately and planning to come back and forth.
Speaker A:Though we offer this as a tool because we find that the most successful companies tend to have at least one of the co founders coming over and basing themselves here in the uk, at least for a year or so, to really sell that business, hire that team and instill the culture into the company in the uk.
Speaker A:Because that's one of the big challenges, of course, if you've got a team split around the world, ensuring that it still has the same vision, still has the same culture, still has the same feel, while allowing it to change and grow, it's important and it's really down to the founder's vision.
Speaker B:What puts people off, people care about Brexit or anything.
Speaker A:I think Brexit has made certain things more tricky for some companies, but on the whole, you know what entrepreneurs are like.
Speaker A:We're a resourceful bunch.
Speaker A:We will solve challenges as they come up.
Speaker A:And I haven't seen a slowing down of.
Speaker A:Of companies wanting to take the opportunities that are here in the uk.
Speaker A:It just may mean if they're coming from Europe, for example, they need to have a visa now, when they didn't before, which is true.
Speaker B:From the Oz and the Kiwis, they're coming still.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't know whether the Europeans would, because they just can't believe they need a visa.
Speaker B:You know, they're sort of in shock still, you know, and it's complicated.
Speaker A:It's a shame.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Well, my feelings about Brexit are that I don't think it was valuable to the uk.
Speaker B:Can't go back, can't go back.
Speaker A:Well, this is where we are and we just need to move forward and work with what we have.
Speaker A:And so there are mechanisms to do it.
Speaker B:I'm all up for Entrepreneur island, as someone put it to me, which doesn't mean everyone needs to be an entrepreneur, by the way, before people think that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:But just make it get super attractive for that 5% of people who are like that and they'll just come and just build businesses like crazy and jobs will fly and off.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think.
Speaker A:I think making that easy is really important and I think we.
Speaker A:If we want to retain companies in the uk, we also need to address some funding gaps and things that we're seeing.
Speaker A:I was looking at the HSBC Innovation VC Term Sheet guide that came out recently.
Speaker A:They were looking at 20, 24 funding in the UK, VC funding, and said that while 70% of seed and 59% of Series A investments were led by UK based investors.
Speaker A:About 80% of the later stage.
Speaker A: ational investors, whereas in: Speaker B:So it's going down.
Speaker B:Is this it?
Speaker B:Which way around?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So now an extra 30% of that sort of later stage investment into UK businesses is coming from outside the UK.
Speaker A:And if we want to continue to foster our ecosystem here, but also have returns for UK investors who will then reinvest into the UK ecosystem, I think that might be something that we need to.
Speaker B:Well, there's two stats you quoted.
Speaker B:What's the year gap?
Speaker B: One was: Speaker B:What was the other one?
Speaker A:2023.
Speaker A: One was: Speaker A:So it was a change in a year.
Speaker B:Oh, okay, okay, yeah, I mean, and when it says international, I mean, yeah, I guess it could be a few places.
Speaker B:That's America, a lot of it I would guess.
Speaker B:But actually it has changed a bit.
Speaker B:You do see, you do see international money coming in, I think.
Speaker B:I think, you know, India's become a bigger part of the sort of entrepreneurial investor community.
Speaker B:So, you know, there's some upsides to Brexit is that it's more of an opportunity, I think, you know, I think there is some sense amongst Indian businesses I deal with and stuff that there's more opportunity there for them.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, underneath it I'm sort of quite pro commonwealth.
Speaker B:So, you know, an Indian entrepreneur said this to me, say, well, you know, from our perspective it all seemed a little bit unfair that Europe could come here.
Speaker B:Happy days.
Speaker B:And yet it was almost impossible to come as an Indian, you know, and I think you could say that as an Aussie or otherwise.
Speaker B:But anyway, we're back in time into, we're back into politics, which I should probably avoid more.
Speaker B:And you know, within all of this they could get help on this program that would help them.
Speaker B:There's definitely a tried and tested route into the UK as you say, out to the us do you see?
Speaker B:Is there any other major regions that you deal with or is your deal flow mostly from our Australasian friends?
Speaker A:Yeah, I work mostly with Australian and New Zealand companies.
Speaker A:But on the program we see companies coming in from all over the place.
Speaker A:We have a lot of companies coming from India, which you just mentioned.
Speaker A:We have them coming from Europe from across the African continent, really from everywhere where they have a smaller market often or they have been operating in a larger market but see a particular opportunity.
Speaker A:Here we're starting, I think to see more and more US companies keen to expand into the UK as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe an upside of the Trump effect is we suddenly seem like a very sensible, stable little island again.
Speaker B:You know, I don't know, maybe if.
Speaker A:You'Re in sustainability or climate or that sort of thing.
Speaker A:Obviously with the US administration being less friendly towards that at the moment, I think that companies are seeing a real opportunity to come to the UK and, and into Europe where there's still a big commitment.
Speaker B:Don't you think?
Speaker B:The attitude to sustainability is just so.
Speaker B:I mean, so even in this country, so mixed now, it's like everyone's banging on about, oh, why did we do this, Net zero?
Speaker B:The windmills aren't turning, you know, this.
Speaker B:You can't imagine this 10 years ago when we were all like, come on, Britain, let's be Net zero.
Speaker A:There's actually.
Speaker A:I'm seeing far more acceptance of it as a massive business opportunity and massive positivity.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely that There is, is so much opportunity for innovation.
Speaker A:You know, if we're looking at it from a pure innovation perspective, there's, there's a lot of interest and a lot of acceptance that that is somewhere where we A, need to innovate, but B, are innovating.
Speaker A:So I, I think I'm seeing a lot.
Speaker B:You're not seeing the sort of.
Speaker B:The cynicism towards it.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of opportunities for funding and stuff.
Speaker B:Fuller, is it, or.
Speaker A:I think there's still a lot of funding available for things like that.
Speaker A:But whenever you're doing something that's solving a real problem, it doesn't sort of really matter.
Speaker A:The sector, in a way.
Speaker A:If you're solving a real problem through innovation and someone's willing to pay for that, well, there's your business and as an investor, why would you not want to get involved in that?
Speaker A:And now a quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker B:Business without is brought to you by Ori Clark.
Speaker B: ancial and legal advice since: Speaker B:You can find us@oriclark.com Orey is spelled O U R Y.
Speaker B:Before we press on, just a quick reminder to come say hi on whatever social comment platform you like.
Speaker B:We're pretty much on all of them.
Speaker B:Just search for WB London.
Speaker B:Where are you on the whole world of AI and what's that doing to us and what, you know, what's your feeling about it in terms of how it's.
Speaker B:How it's changing entrepreneurialism, or is it too much hype or.
Speaker A:I think there is a lot of hype.
Speaker A:It Feels a bit sometimes like the early Internet bubble where, you know, people are throwing money at things and everyone's saying they're an AI company and it just means that they use a bit of chatgpt to, you know, write their proposals or something.
Speaker A:I think the same thing applies to AI as applies to any technology.
Speaker A:You have to ensure it's solving a problem and it's a problem that someone is prepared to pay for.
Speaker A:And if you're being thrown investment money, you know, investment isn't revenue, it's the tool to help you get there.
Speaker A:So I think for AI companies, they need to build something proprietary, defensible and ethical.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:And the last is sometimes a challenge when you've got a gold rush vibe going on.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, you know, I understand that just the rate of change of AI is just that.
Speaker B:I mean, the adoption is so quick.
Speaker B:I mean, how I've.
Speaker B:I've come to use it 50 times a day from, you know, I mean, I don't know, it's just happened so fast.
Speaker B:What, how did you end up doing what you're doing?
Speaker B:So you do, you, you, you do the deal maker stuff.
Speaker B:Sounds very, very impressive.
Speaker B:I hope you have a business car with Deal Maker.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:It's a great title, isn't it?
Speaker B:Deal Maker.
Speaker B:Make a deal, then, you know, make it happen.
Speaker B:But you are.
Speaker B:You also do some sort of advisory work?
Speaker A:Yeah, I do some, some similar sorts of work privately for.
Speaker A:Often for.
Speaker A:On some boards and things like that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:How did you end up here?
Speaker B:How did you.
Speaker B:Where did this all come from?
Speaker A:I originally was a writer, copywriter, content strategist and one of my jobs in Melbourne.
Speaker A:In fact, I think it was maybe my last job before I came to the UK was writing.
Speaker A:Do you remember that there used to be human sort of generated search directories?
Speaker B:Human generated search directory so you could go onto it.
Speaker A:So not like a search engine, but a sort of directory of sites on certain things.
Speaker A:I'm really showing my age.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:No, I'm trying to think, you know.
Speaker A:Anyway, I had been studying journalism at school, at university and I took a job doing this, writing reviews of websites basically in different categories for review them one for a company.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And it's amazing how quickly looking at.
Speaker A:I think we figured out we looked at like 500,000 websites a year if we extrapolate it or something, like some huge number.
Speaker A:It's amazing how quickly you get good at searching for things, finding things, understanding what's out there on the Internet, understanding what websites are doing these days at the time because you're just looking at so many of them and having to review them and having to review them so that one review doesn't sound like the next review.
Speaker A:We had this prototype to review all of the fire station and police station websites in Canada or something.
Speaker A:It was a project for, for a client.
Speaker A:And let me tell you, there's not a lot of difference back in the late 90s of, you know, these different websites and you have to like write these little reviews reviewing a website that's just like, hi, we're small town police station and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:But it gave me such an overview of what there was out there online.
Speaker A:And I really enjoyed the culture of the business.
Speaker A:It was very different to working in a big company, that sort of thing.
Speaker A:And so I just thought, this feels really good, this feels really exciting.
Speaker A:And so when I came to the uk, I temped and things like that for a bit.
Speaker A:And then I worked in copywriting and content and did some work for agencies and various things.
Speaker A:And then I founded my own editorial agency and that was my first business.
Speaker A:And so ran that for seven years or something and had some big clients like some of the big agencies and some big brands and that kind of thing.
Speaker A:And then I was getting more and more into the technology industry and was chatting with a friend of mine who ended up becoming my co.
Speaker A:Founder.
Speaker A:Co founder of Tech Hub and was talking about the fact.
Speaker A:No, that it was actually Mike was my co founder and then Andrew came later and then we ran the business together.
Speaker B:What are they called?
Speaker B:Andrew Tibbets and Mike.
Speaker A:Andrew Tibbets and Mike Butcher.
Speaker B:Mike Butcher.
Speaker B:Big about.
Speaker A:And I had been for a long time working on these ideas about connecting people that my, my editorial agency actually grew out of running a community for online content professionals.
Speaker A:And I love the alchemy that you get in the room when you have people together in a room.
Speaker A:And I recognize that for the UK to play on a global stage in the technology industry, we needed something that brought everybody together and gave founders access to the things that they needed to be more successful.
Speaker A:And you need that hot house kind of environment of everybody around each other.
Speaker A:And that was how Tech Hub was born.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:What did it start as sort of shared working space, was it?
Speaker A:Well, it was while we had workspace, which was important in an expensive city like London, it was actually more about what happened in the space that was important.
Speaker A:And so we ran a really rich program of support connecting companies to each other, to investors, to people who've done it before, to corporates who were like, like, we want to get in on this boom of startups that's nascent and getting going.
Speaker A:And so we brought some big partners on board like Google and BT and Telefonica and others to have them help support early stage companies and help them to grow.
Speaker A:And so that then grew and expanded.
Speaker A:We expanded it across Europe, into India and the US and we ended up supporting over 3,000 companies around the world, supporting them to scale.
Speaker B:But it was about bringing people together, was it?
Speaker B:And providing them with information.
Speaker A:Well, giving them access to all of the things that they needed.
Speaker A:And often the things that they needed was each other.
Speaker B:And wine.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, there's quite a bit of beer and pizza at the time, but access to other people who don't think that you're crazy for doing this, you know, weird business, you know, this weird product.
Speaker A:Therapy.
Speaker B:Therapy almost.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There is a sense of needing to be around other people who are doing what you're doing so you don't feel so alone.
Speaker A:Because being a founder can be really lonely.
Speaker B:And it's, it's funny, you would think that people would be sort of crabs in a bucket trying to sort of bring each other down, but it doesn't really work that.
Speaker B:Not with those personality types.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:They're like, oh, you've got a crazy idea too.
Speaker B:Brilliant.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The tech industry has always been super generous with their time and their expertise in wanting to help other people.
Speaker A:And I love that it's an amazing environment to spend time in.
Speaker A:And that's, you know, that's really what I'm doing now.
Speaker B:I wonder if it's not the tech industry.
Speaker B:I wonder if it's entrepreneurs.
Speaker B:And I wonder if entrepreneurs are so tilted towards sort of, you know, those sort of ADHD kind of mindsets or, you know, being neurodiverse in some kind of way.
Speaker B:And then, you know, you're bored easily so you find other people who are crazy interesting.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, way before these things in my, I was aware of them having labels.
Speaker B:I mean, I would always say 20 years ago, I like weird people.
Speaker B:You know, I used to say it here when people like, can't believe you get on with them.
Speaker B:And I'm like, yeah, I really like weird people.
Speaker B:I don't like, you know, I like anyone who's, you know, they don't have to be polite, you know, they don't have to be, they don't have to be nice.
Speaker B:I like them odd, you know, and I'm fascinated by anyone.
Speaker B:I can't understand how they're ticking, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, I remember, you know, when you're a kid and weird would be sort of thrown at you by people like it was an insult.
Speaker A:And I always took it as a great compliment because I was normal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can turn it around and say, yeah, you're really normal.
Speaker B:You're, you're really, you're really running the mill.
Speaker B:You're, you're, you're average.
Speaker B:You're just like right in the middle.
Speaker B:And then I actually wonder what is.
Speaker B:I don't know if there is any average.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:No, of course not.
Speaker A:Everybody is unique and completely different.
Speaker A:And the more that we celebrate difference, the more that we allow people to be who they really are, the better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Why, why would we all want to be the same?
Speaker A:Crammed into little boxes?
Speaker A:It's no fun.
Speaker B:No, we see we desperately trying to sort of generalize an average all the time and you know, out of this, when have you messed up the most?
Speaker B:What's been your biggest failure, would you say?
Speaker B:And what did it teach you?
Speaker A:Well, I think one of the biggest things that I think has been challenging for me is not listening to my gut.
Speaker B:Sometimes hard to listen to your gut sometimes.
Speaker A:Sometimes when you make a wrong decision, say it's, it's annoying, it's frustrating.
Speaker A:But if you made the right decision and then second guessed yourself and made the wrong decision, kicking yourself for that feels terrible.
Speaker A:And I think that there's been times in my career and in my life where it would have been more successful to really listen to what I knew and I felt to be true.
Speaker B:How do you do it sometimes, though?
Speaker B:How do we dampen down all the other things which start influencing our.
Speaker B:What they said or what they, you know, I, I would so agree.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, when we were first running our record label, we, I think we started quite well.
Speaker B:We were just didn't know anything different and we were following our gut.
Speaker B:And then you start having so many influences around you.
Speaker B:Someone said this and we should do this, and you just sort of, you lose it.
Speaker A:And, and I mean, you've got to take experience and advice on.
Speaker A:It's, you know, it's useful, but when there's something that you really believe, I think you've got to, to really go for it.
Speaker A:And you asked, you know, how, how do you do that?
Speaker A:And I think the answer is therapy.
Speaker B:You're meaning literal therapy.
Speaker A:Literal therapy.
Speaker A:I, I did a panel in Riga in Latvia at the Techchell conference there a couple of years ago where it was about how therapy personally and.
Speaker A:And coaching personally leads to business success.
Speaker A:And I had a couple of founders on stage with me, and we talked about how when you are doing work to understand yourself better, you become a better leader, you become a better business person.
Speaker A:And, you know, we talk about burnout and that sort of thing as, you know, as a risk to founders.
Speaker A:But one of the things that we don't really talk about is if you're not happy, if you're doing something that doesn't sort of feel right, if you're repeating patterns over and over because you don't understand yourself well enough, then it's a huge risk to your business.
Speaker A:And I think that everyone can really benefit from experiences that help you understand yourself better.
Speaker B:Frustrating thing for therapy, and, I mean, I had some this morning.
Speaker B:I've been having some mums.
Speaker B:Cystide.
Speaker B:And, yeah, you know, it's helpful because you can.
Speaker B:You have these moments when you pinpoint things that are causing you to get blocked.
Speaker B:The irritating thing, though, I find, is that you pinpoint them, but it doesn't make them go away.
Speaker A:No, there's a load of work to do.
Speaker B:How do I.
Speaker B:Can you like zapping me now?
Speaker B:Or like, esg, like electroshock therapy?
Speaker B:Est.
Speaker B:You know, it's like, you know, okay, I've pinpointed this thing.
Speaker B:I need it to stop.
Speaker B:It's like, no, but awareness helps.
Speaker B:But now how do I stop it?
Speaker B:It's like, well, you've got to fight it.
Speaker B:You got to fight it.
Speaker B:Just like you've got to fight the urge not to drink every 10 seconds or whatever it is.
Speaker A:I saw a great statement recently, which was, your brain tries to lie to you all the time, but your body never does.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And I thought, wow, that's a really good way of remembering that.
Speaker A:That all of that noise that I've learned over time is trying to tell me things, but my body is going absolutely no.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the point you've just made is really interesting.
Speaker B:There's a lot of noise up here.
Speaker B:A lot of noise.
Speaker B:You know, and listening to your gut is not a metaphor.
Speaker B:It's like, quite literally, you feel down here about this.
Speaker B:You know, I get stuck on what I should order in a restaurant, let alone whether I should go out tonight or not.
Speaker B:You know, I'm like, fomo.
Speaker B:Oh, should.
Speaker B:I shouldn't.
Speaker B:It's like, what is your.
Speaker B:You know, I try and key into it, and probably I'm bad at listening to my gut.
Speaker B:Probably I have a too much fear in my head.
Speaker B:Or something.
Speaker A:But you've got to settle into it.
Speaker A:You've got to like settle into your body to be like, what is it actually telling me?
Speaker A:Because yeah, you, you want it.
Speaker A:This is coming back to the.
Speaker A:My vices.
Speaker A:I always want to say yes and so it's like, oh, but I want to do the thing.
Speaker B:You want to please people.
Speaker B:It's a please people thing.
Speaker B:Or yeah.
Speaker A:Or I feel like I should do that or maybe I would enjoy it once I got there.
Speaker A:But actually my body's saying you're really tired and actually you just want to be by yourself for an evening or something like that.
Speaker A:And so I think, yeah, settling into what do I really want?
Speaker B:Best piece of advice you're ever given?
Speaker A:The best piece of advice I've been given is don't get it right, get it written.
Speaker A:Which my mum told me when I was in high school, struggling to get essays and things written the night before, inevitably to submit the next day.
Speaker A:And it's really, I guess a different way of saying don't let the perfect get in way of the good.
Speaker B:Yeah, don't get it right.
Speaker B:Get it written.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And I really love that.
Speaker A:Get it out, get it done, get the thing done and move on to the next thing.
Speaker A:And also once you've done the draft, once you've done your MVP of your product, once you've got something out there, then you can change it, then you can edit it, then you can do other things, but you've got to have the thing done and out there first.
Speaker B:And you'd be given any bad advice.
Speaker A:VC investment would wreck the nature of my business and my enjoyment of it and I shouldn't do it.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think finding the right funding partners is very important, of course, but it can stifle your growth not to leverage things like external funding when you need it.
Speaker A:And so I think that was a situation where I went against my gut and I think that I was wrong.
Speaker B:Yeah, interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The VCs probably get a bad rap sometimes, you know, sometimes I give them a bad rap because I've had a few bad experiences.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's pretty fun.
Speaker A:People have bad experiences, but people have bad experiences and everything.
Speaker A:People also have fantastic experiences.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm a venture partner with the Australian vc Tribe Global Ventures.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker B:But Tribe Global.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And they're fantastic.
Speaker A:Aaron and Don, the co founders and the rest of the team are just really fantastic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they're obviously focused on supporting Australian companies to expand into the UK or the us.
Speaker A:So it's really aligned with what I'm doing.
Speaker A:And they're just such a great team.
Speaker A:And the more you get to know individual investors, the more you think, oh, well, I would love to have them involved in my business, or there are other investors that I know and really value their input and their thoughts and their expertise and their knowledge.
Speaker A:And I think it's about finding the right partners.
Speaker A:As in everything about business, it's finding the right partners to be successful and.
Speaker B:Top tips for founders or entrepreneurs.
Speaker A:Institute proper goals and review processes for your team members and tie those into company goals, even if you're really small and at an early stage, because your team needs to feel part of the wider vision and understand what they're doing is moving the company and moving you all towards that.
Speaker A:And you need to be able to trust, promote, or let people go quickly.
Speaker A:And the best way to do that is to be really clear about, here are the goals that we're setting and are they achieving them and are they enjoying the work they're doing?
Speaker A:Are they great at their vision leadership?
Speaker A:I think, yeah.
Speaker A:And it's something that I really had to learn.
Speaker A:And so learning things like that through my experience as a founder means that I'm able to help founders do that better now that I'm advising them.
Speaker A:I think, as I mentioned earlier, when you're expanding internationally, you as the founder need to spearhead it, especially for your first few expansions.
Speaker A:Hire a great senior team locally, obviously, but I think it really takes the founder to lead that.
Speaker A:But I think the most important thing as a founder is making sure that you're focusing on what you want your life to be.
Speaker A:We're very good at focusing on the business and the needs of the business, but if you're being pulled into things that you're not good at or you don't enjoy, and that's becoming a lot of your role, and you're not able to sort of extricate yourself and be.
Speaker A:Be the founder or be the CEO or be the cto, whatever your role is.
Speaker A:Burnout isn't only about being tired, it's about being unfulfilled.
Speaker A:And it's a massive risk to the business if you as the founder, aren't focusing on what you want to achieve for your life and not just the business.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting point.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not even work life balance.
Speaker B:It's just sort of, you know, you've got to feel whole, I guess.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And you've got to enjoy your work.
Speaker A:When I was thinking about what was next for me after Tech Hub, I got a massive whiteboard and wrote a load of things on it.
Speaker A:And one of the things I did was write down all of the things that I was good at.
Speaker A:And then I went and put a mark next to all of the things that I enjoyed doing.
Speaker A:And that list was much shorter, better than all the things I was able to do.
Speaker A:And that sort of thing is really important for deciding, you know, what's.
Speaker A:You're a human, not just a business person.
Speaker A:How are you going to be really successful if you don't love it?
Speaker B:Brilliant.
Speaker B:Thank you, Elizabeth.
Speaker B:It's been great.
Speaker B:I think if people want to find you, I mean, they find you on LinkedIn, I guess.
Speaker A:Yeah, LinkedIn is a great way to find me.
Speaker B:Brilliant.
Speaker B:And so there you have it.
Speaker B:That was this week's episode of Business Without.
Speaker B:Thank you, Elizabeth.
Speaker B:Thank you, Dee.
Speaker B:We'll be back next Wednesday.
Speaker B:Until then, it's ciao.
