Episode 386
Premier League Nutrition with Thomas Robson Kanu
EP 386 - This week we revisit our chat with Thomas Robson Kanu, who pivoted from a top level premier league and international football career into entrepreneurship, setting up family business the Turmeric Co.
Based on a formula that he and his father developed to aid his recovery and pain relief (he was pain free in six weeks of consistent consumption) Thomas is now taking the same drive that fuelled his paying career into business.
We talk about:
Why so many superficially healthy drinks on our shop shelves contain so little nutrition and so much sugar that you might as well have a coke and enjoy it
Why it is so difficult to get natural remedies into the mainstream (hint, it’s to do with money
And
Why f**king up every day is the route to success
It’s a fascinating chat especially when you hear the drive and ambition for the Turmeric Co to emulate the global success of health drinks from a previous century (yes, we are talking about Coca Cola).
*For Apple Podcast chapters, access them from the menu in the bottom right corner of your player*
Spotify Video Chapters:
00:00 BWB with Thomas Robson-Kanu
00:32 The Birth of The Turmeric Company
01:52 Andy's Intro
02:10 Thomas's Journey from Football to Entrepreneurship
04:20 Challenges and Rewards of Professional Sports
07:53 The Power of Natural Remedies
16:01 Launching a Health Brand
25:27 Clinical Studies and Health Benefits
34:11 The Importance of Health and Nutrition
35:41 Challenges in the Juice Industry
37:12 Manufacturing and Shelf Life
39:42 Business Growth and Strategy
43:39 Consumer Trends and Functional Beverages
52:32 The Reality of Juice Products
58:18 Quickfire - Get To Know Thomas
01:03:07 Wrap Up
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Transcript
You know, I suffered major injuries as well.
Speaker A:Surgeon said you'd never play again without pain or restriction.
Speaker A:We just said there must be a way to naturally recover from this, like surely.
Speaker A:We basically identified all these raw ingredients.
Speaker A:My father turned them into this golden elixir and I used this lens for six weeks and within six weeks I was completely pain free.
Speaker A:From that point on, I was basically able to go on and have a career in professional football.
Speaker A:Pain free.
Speaker A:And I used it as my secret weapon that led to, you know, the Turmeric Co being born as a actual concept and blend.
Speaker B:What do you think is bullshit in this industry?
Speaker A:I would say the majority of juices and products and supplements are bullshit.
Speaker A:Major bullshit.
Speaker B:Hi and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.
Speaker B:We're here to help the founders, entrepreneurs, business owners, anyone who wrestles with the job of being in charge.
Speaker B:And if you like what we do here, please us on Spotify and Apple and come say hi on YouTube if you fancy watching us in action.
Speaker B:Links are in the episode description or just search for wblondon.
Speaker B:This week we revisit our chat with Thomas Robson Canoe, who pivoted from a top level international Premier League football career into entrepreneurship by setting up his family business, the Turmeric company, based on a formula that he and his father developed to aid his recovery from a career ending injury or apparently so Tom Thomas is now taking the same drive that fueled his football career into business.
Speaker B:We talk about why so many superficially healthy drinks on shop shelves contain so little nutrition and so much sugar that you might as well have a Coke and enjoy it.
Speaker B:Why it's so difficult to get natural remedies into the mainstream.
Speaker B:It's to do with the money.
Speaker B:If you didn't know, and why messing up every day is the route to success.
Speaker B:It's a great chat, especially when you hear the drive and ambition for the Turmeric company to emulate the global success of health drinks from a previous century.
Speaker B:And yes, we are talking about Coca Cola.
Speaker B:Check it out.
Speaker C:I'm Philippa Sturt and alongside me is my co host, Andy Ury.
Speaker B:Hello.
Speaker C:Hi Andy.
Speaker C:And we're joined by Thomas Robson Canoe, founder and CEO of the award winning Turmeric Co.
Speaker C: and Wales before retiring in: Speaker C: He founded the Turmeric Co in: Speaker C:The Turmeric Co has won numerous awards, is utilized by the likes of Everton fc, Brentford FC and Sale Sharks Rugby Club, and is one of the UK's fastest growing health brands.
Speaker C:Thomas, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:Thank you very much for having me, both of you.
Speaker B:So Thomas, this is fabulous.
Speaker B:So I mean, we'd like to start with a simple question.
Speaker B:What is keeping you up at night?
Speaker A:What is keeping me up at night, apart from my children?
Speaker C:How old are the kids?
Speaker A:They are eight, five and four.
Speaker C:Okay, that's going to keep you awake.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:So apart from the children.
Speaker A:Not a lot.
Speaker A:I think I will try and read as much as possible in the evenings.
Speaker A:Good to.
Speaker B:You're a big reader, are you?
Speaker A:Yeah, I like information to a degree.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So non fiction.
Speaker B:You're Wikipedia.
Speaker A:Yeah, so I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker A:I'm not geeking out on fiction, unfortunately.
Speaker C:Wikipedia rabbit holes?
Speaker A:No, no, no, no, no Wikipedia rabbit holes.
Speaker A:No, no Twitter rabbit holes for me.
Speaker A:But no, like, I think there's a lot of self development that we can do, so I try and do that in the form of books.
Speaker A:A lot of what I've learned in business has been sort of formed from various different sources in literature.
Speaker C:I'm embarrassed by my evening.
Speaker C:Ha.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Walk through the door, put on my pajamas if I'm lucky, get straight into bed.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:Oh my gosh.
Speaker C:Watch telly for a couple of hours, go to sleep.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean that, that's great.
Speaker B:I mean, is he more drawn towards sort of business or is this more, you know, a personal thing to sort of, you know, improve yourself?
Speaker A:I think, you know, I think they're kind of.
Speaker A:Well, I don't know if that's wrongly or rightly but intertwined because, you know, you want to improve yourself and you want to improve everything that you're doing and for me, I'm in business now, so, you know, it plays a fundamental.
Speaker B:People don't all want to improve everything they're doing.
Speaker B:You've got this drive, obviously.
Speaker B:Is that based on sports or something or Possibly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think that.
Speaker A:I think sport probably has a fundamental element because I played professional sport now.
Speaker C:Not just professional, but high level professional, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Don't know a lot.
Speaker C:But that's like the top league, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's this one.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's one of the top leagues in the world, but I think when you're competing in sport, you're competing from a very young age.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:When did you start?
Speaker A:I started at 10, so I signed for Arsenal as a 10 year old, you know, so you're thrust into this academy system where everything is, you know, ultimately about being.
Speaker A:Being as good as you possibly can be and being.
Speaker C:How do you, how does that happen?
Speaker C:You just at your local club or something?
Speaker C:Yeah, football and a scout comes, essentially.
Speaker A:That's exactly what happens.
Speaker A:But you, A lot of people will talk and you know, what happened was I was performing really well and you know, other coaches and other people, kids were talking about my performances as a, you know, 10 year old, obviously 7, 8, 9, 10.
Speaker A:You have to do it consistently.
Speaker A:And then, yeah, was scouted by Arsenal.
Speaker A:But for me it was like, it was just quite unique because then you then do certain days, you'll leave school early.
Speaker A:A lot of the time you'd get picked up and then you'd be.
Speaker C:Were you living in, in London at the time?
Speaker A:I was living the opposite side of London.
Speaker A:It would take me about an hour to get to TR training.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think you arrive and then you have new football boots every two weeks.
Speaker A:You play on, you know, this immaculate pitch and turf.
Speaker C:Football boots every two weeks?
Speaker A:Yeah, because your feet are growing and changing and it's all about, you know, being your best.
Speaker A:And I think it is quite fascinating and I think understanding that you have to be your best, you have to turn up and then going into elite sport, you know, it's not about, okay, participation, you know, hey guys, let's just participate today.
Speaker A:You know, jobs are on the line if you win and lose.
Speaker A:And it's obviously amplified to a degree because of the attention on sport.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I think a lot of sports, men and women are, you know, highly driven.
Speaker A:There's a lot of sacrifice and I think again, it teaches you that, you know, discipline is, is used in various different ways, but I think it's more just about really understanding what, what you want in your life and then just being willing to apply, you know, apply yourself to that.
Speaker C:Yeah, but at 10, that's quite a hard thing.
Speaker B:And also, I mean, my neighbor's son was signed to Tottenham.
Speaker B:He went all, he went all the way.
Speaker B:Then he got injured when he was like 19, 20, got a major injury and that was it, you know, and you sacrifice so much, you know, to get to that point.
Speaker B:Would you tell your kids to do it out of interest?
Speaker A:No, to be honest, I say whatever my kids want to do, I'll let them do it.
Speaker B:But if they suddenly were like getting signed and stuff, you'd be great.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'd say, okay, well, if you want to, if you want to compete at a top level, like there's going to be things that you're going to have to do which 99.9% of the people who are currently doing what you're doing will not be able to do because the levels of discipline, focus, sacrifice, you know, desire, you know, a lot, a lot of the time.
Speaker A:And I think this is typical in all walks of life.
Speaker A:Fundamentally, like if you want to achieve something, it's simply about the willingness to persevere.
Speaker A:If you just are relentless, you know, you get a setback and you persevere, you get disappointment, you persevere, you continue to continue.
Speaker A:A lot of the people who eventually achieve something are just those who just basically never gave up and were able to persevere longer and cope with the knockbacks, I suppose.
Speaker A:Yeah, precisely.
Speaker A:So it's, it's all fascinating and I, you know, I suffered major injuries as well as a 15 year old, which.
Speaker B:Is what led to this is it?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And that, that led to, you know, the turmeric co being born as a actual concept and blend, you know, I May experienced two major surgeries of course as a 15 year old, didn't play for two and a half years.
Speaker A:Surgeon said you'd never play again without pain or restriction.
Speaker A:I should probably begin looking at different career paths.
Speaker A:And yeah, I was just determined to become a professional footballer.
Speaker A:So I persevered, came back through the rehabilitation and then I'd go for a jog and my knee would balloon, you know, like literally swelling, inflammation.
Speaker B:And that was the injury when you were 15, a knee injury.
Speaker A:15 years.
Speaker B:The knees complicated.
Speaker A:Yeah, well it's.
Speaker A:If you rupture the main ligament in your knee, you know, it's, it's, it's the, it's the knee that's, it's the ligament that stops acl, anterior cruciate ligament.
Speaker A:So it's the knee that basically gives stability of the knee.
Speaker A:If you don't have an anterior cruciate ligament, your knee will basically shift all over the place.
Speaker B:Dude, Matt's massive.
Speaker B:I mean you're 15, my God, you must have been determined to do it.
Speaker B:And then, I mean it's that, that story is quite common.
Speaker B:The sort of story you'll walk again.
Speaker B:Da da da da da.
Speaker B:And then there's always those counter stories of like, well that depends how much you want it.
Speaker B:I mean there's a lovely one about someone who, his wife had like this enormous stroke and like lost like so much of her memory and said, and they said you never rebuild it.
Speaker B:And the husband just, it took him 10 years he put labels and everything in the house and he just loved her too much and just wouldn't give up.
Speaker B:And she's back to normal and they said it would never.
Speaker B:And basically they're saying it would never happen.
Speaker B:But what they failed to say, unless you're willing to give 10 years of your life working every minute, minute there is to rebuild this person's knowledge, you know, so 15.
Speaker B:So you didn't play for two and a half years.
Speaker B:That's major in itself, is it?
Speaker B:They let you back in anyway once you get fit again, did they?
Speaker A:Yeah, touch and go.
Speaker A:Obviously it got.
Speaker A:Got back playing and training again, but I was just hampered with pain and information.
Speaker A:So, you know, it take me 15 minutes in the morning to sort of be able to get out of bed to get the range and flexion in my knee.
Speaker A:So at the time, the, the doctors and physios at the club prescribed me anti inflammatories, so, you know, painkillers, diclofenac, ibuprofen.
Speaker A:And my body had a complete adverse reaction to them.
Speaker A:So it started passing blood in my urine, had severe nausea, you know, so really like traumatic stuff to go through as a teenager after having gone through, you know, what was already a traumatic period.
Speaker A:And it was at that point where, you know, I broke down and my father and I.
Speaker A:My father was with me at the time and tried to play a game, couldn't play, got home, tried to walk up the stairs and literally broke down on the stairs because I couldn't physically get up then without the pain.
Speaker A:We just said there must be a way to naturally recover from this.
Speaker A:Like, surely, you know, there must be a way out there.
Speaker A:If there's drugs, if there's painkillers, you know, surely something natural can, can work.
Speaker A:So we basically went on a research binge and, you know, went to the public library, began looking at various different parts of the world and how they would treat pain and inflammation with natural remedies, you know, and we began identifying these basically, you know, relatively readily accessible natural ingredients which all purported to anecdotally reduce pain or inflammation in some form of another.
Speaker A:And they were things like watermelon, pomegranate, pineapple, ginger, and subsequently turmeric.
Speaker A:But it was about having it obviously consistently over time.
Speaker B:Hence, this is made of watermelon, Pineapple.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker B:It's not just turmeric, but turmeric sort of.
Speaker B:I don't know whether there was a study, is it more recent?
Speaker B:But it's been known for quite a long time that turmeric Particularly with the, the gut seems to have these anti inflammatory.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Do we know what the active ingredient in turmeric is?
Speaker A:So, so the actual turmeric, you know, in terms of turmeric as a root, the researched active compound is a curcuminoid called curcumin.
Speaker A:However, there are hundreds of different curcuminoids within raw turmeric root.
Speaker A:And so it's quite fascinating because, you know, I think the first clinical study on turmeric was only done a few decades ago.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And when you look at it, published, you know, so.
Speaker B:But we're terrible at investigating natural ingredients because, you know, as my wife, as a doctor would say, you need a double blind study.
Speaker B:Well, to get double blind studies cost millions and millions of pounds and no one's going to do that on something that's just available everywhere.
Speaker B:I mean, it's a, it's a problem in cancer, it's a problem everywhere that there's no loop, you know, to go and investigate, you know, all these natural ingredients.
Speaker B:And really, you know, I mean, Jamaican medicine and a lot of countries, medicine is incredibly natural and they purport some amazing results.
Speaker B:But yeah, without a double blind study, a western medicine doctor can't recommend something that, you know, so it is, it's a, it's a painful loop.
Speaker B:So I Wonder who paid 20 years ago to do it.
Speaker C:But speaking of this, you've done some clinical research yourself, have you?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Or had some commission.
Speaker A:So long story short with that is, you know, we basically identified all these raw ingredients.
Speaker A:My father turned them into this golden elixir, you know, this blend after a few weeks of trial and error and I used the, this blend for six weeks and within six weeks I was completely pain free.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker C:And orange.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So no, no.
Speaker A:Our kitchen was orange.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So every utensil in the kitchen was orange.
Speaker A:Every blender would, you know, we would need a new blender every, every quarter you'd need a new, you need to invest in a new blender.
Speaker A:And that's because, you know, it's such a fibrous root, you know, it stains everything, you know, but six weeks down the line, you know, I was able to run Play Train again all within six weeks.
Speaker B:Within six weeks by digesting it.
Speaker A:That was the only, you know, this liquid.
Speaker A:So I was consuming it two, three.
Speaker B:You'D have to put it on the knee or something, you know.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:So again, there is, there's things out there on topical application, but what we were seeing was obviously consuming raw bioavailable so in an absorbable format.
Speaker A:And an absorbable format is it being combined with black pepper?
Speaker A:You know, so we've got black pepper.
Speaker B:Mix I saw that helps it absorb.
Speaker A:As well as a fat soluble.
Speaker A:So we use a, you know, your.
Speaker B:Dad became a sort of a bit of a scientist trying to work this out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What's his normal job or so he, you know.
Speaker A:Law.
Speaker A:Studied law when he was a lawyer.
Speaker A:Yeah, the best.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So, you know, and then obviously, you know, went on to become a civil servant and.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think from our perspective it was, you know, a lot of the time you say innovation is born from necessity and you know, and that was, without that, there was no way I was going to recover from the experiences that I had.
Speaker A:And like you said, you know, there's, there's a story every single week of a young professional athlete who has to stop playing because of an anterior ruptured cruciate knee ligament.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's very common and so to have that done twice and then to come back and be crippled with pain.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Both injuries were the same.
Speaker A:To be crippled with information to then have, you know, prescribed anti inflammatories, etc, it's quite a fascinating period.
Speaker A:So anyway, so from that point on I was basically able to go on and have a career in professional football pain free.
Speaker A:And I used it as my secret weapon.
Speaker C:And play for your country.
Speaker A:And play, you know, played for Wales internationally.
Speaker A:You know, my grandmother was Welsh, so I was able to represent them, you know, nearly 50 times and obviously play, realize my dream of playing in the Premier League.
Speaker A:And so I also began realizing that I was, you know, recovering generally quicker than my teammates.
Speaker A:You know, I was then in.
Speaker B:She never stopped taking it because it was my suit.
Speaker A:Yeah, I sort of became not reliant because it's natural, but I was very conscious of the impact it was having, you know, so I then began realizing, as I said, it was having additional benefits.
Speaker A:So into winter season, now into flu season, you know, everyone, everyone around us is, you know, run down with flu.
Speaker A:Like I wouldn't get sick, you know, so I was very conscious that then all of a sudden this blend was having additional benefits to my health.
Speaker A: ng story short, we decided in: Speaker C:I feel like we should actually get to try some of this.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry.
Speaker C:I was getting There also, I have to ask, did you have to sing the Welsh national anthem?
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:Yeah, of course.
Speaker A:I learned it in camp.
Speaker B:How much do you drink a day, then?
Speaker A:So again, we launched the.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All fresh, all raw.
Speaker A:We launched the dosing bottle in Saints where it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, please.
Speaker A:Yeah, that'd be great.
Speaker A:It's been a long day.
Speaker B:Salad.
Speaker A:Cheers, guys.
Speaker A:Enjoy.
Speaker C:Cheers.
Speaker B:It's a nice drink because ginger, I've.
Speaker C:Got a sore throat and it's really nice on a sore throat.
Speaker A:And it's actually.
Speaker A:It's actually classed as a food beverage.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, so it's a food.
Speaker A:But because, you know, we're processing raw material, it's a way of consuming, you know, high quality, functional, natural ingredients.
Speaker B:What happens when you blend?
Speaker B:I was always sort of told that, you know, there's a problem once you get, you know, think raw, things are great, but once you put them in a blender and wait a week, they lose a lot of their power.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:So that's the.
Speaker A:That's the way.
Speaker A:So we're crushing.
Speaker A:So our processing is very unique.
Speaker A:And we basically, in order to bring this to market, we had to become a manufacturer ourselves because no manufacturers in the UK or Europe would manufacture this for us.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:So we actually had to set up, invest in our own manufacturing facility, understand how to scale, manufacture and deliver the same high quality raw product that I was having at scale and in volume.
Speaker A:And we did it.
Speaker A: It took us two years from: Speaker B:My God, becoming a manufacturer is a nightmare.
Speaker B:I mean, even working with a manufacturer is a nightmare.
Speaker A:You literally.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker B:I mean, you.
Speaker B:I guess.
Speaker B:I guess you'd had a successful career, so you had.
Speaker B:Did you borrow money or you had resources or raise money because you had.
Speaker A:All self funded.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, all self funded.
Speaker B:You leased a building and.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, yeah, with.
Speaker A:With my.
Speaker A:With my dad, you know, and it was all set up.
Speaker A:It was on our property.
Speaker A:Set up the facility, flattened a few garages.
Speaker A:So for us, we realized that actually there was a massive opportunity to begin servicing consumers with an actual product which made a difference, positive impact.
Speaker A:And we, we did it.
Speaker B:So the secret is, rather than what, when you blend it, you break up the cells too much or something, you crush it or something, or how do you keep it, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, processing.
Speaker A:It's all, you know, it's the way we process the raw material.
Speaker A:It's very unique.
Speaker A:And then the final blend of how we put it in.
Speaker A:No one, no one in the world does that like us.
Speaker A: impact that we're having from: Speaker A:Yeah, I was still playing football.
Speaker A:It was quite fun, to be honest.
Speaker A:Like, during the day I'd be an footballer and in the afternoons and evenings.
Speaker B:I'll be covered in orange.
Speaker A:Covered in orange, yeah.
Speaker A:Thankfully, I didn't have to spend too much time in a manufacturing site, although I have spent time on our filling.
Speaker B:Manufacturing is difficult.
Speaker B:I mean, I.
Speaker B:I'd say that food manufacturing with some.
Speaker B:Some knowledge.
Speaker A:Insane.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah.
Speaker B:And food maybe especially.
Speaker B:But I mean, any type of manufacturing, it's really hard.
Speaker C:The conversation we've had with a lot of founders is that when they first start out, it's particularly hard because they don't want to be doing the volumes that the manufacturers want them to be doing in order to make it worth their while stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, when.
Speaker A:When we launched, each shot was £3.99 of our 60 milliliter.
Speaker A:Was.
Speaker A:We had to sell it at £3,99.
Speaker C:So make any money at all.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And no.
Speaker A:And literally.
Speaker A:And that was, you know, that was a base margin.
Speaker A:You know, we weren't.
Speaker B:That sounds a lot, but you got to first take VAT out of it and then the margin, the retail is going to be insane.
Speaker B:Like 60 or.
Speaker B:I mean, it could be 50, but.
Speaker A:Well, for us, like, it was very intense because the raw everything was the highest quality.
Speaker A:But we.
Speaker A:We weren't producing in volume.
Speaker C:Where does turmeric come from?
Speaker A:So it's seasonal.
Speaker A:You know, we get it from different parts of the world over the course of a.
Speaker A:You know, over the course of a year.
Speaker A:Peru is a fantastic place.
Speaker C:I was gonna say.
Speaker C:What are the good ones?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Peru is, you know, fantastic.
Speaker A:Parts of Africa are very good.
Speaker C:Peru is clearly has a thing about orange because, I mean, marmalade sandwiches.
Speaker C:It's total Peru thing.
Speaker B:Is it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Paddington eats marmalade sandwiches.
Speaker B:That is a quick connection you've made.
Speaker B:Is altitude important?
Speaker B:Because Peru's got a lot of mountains.
Speaker A:I think it's.
Speaker A:So there is something to do in terms of.
Speaker A:I think it's more to do with the equator.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So it's that sort of line around.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:From my.
Speaker A:From.
Speaker B:Because you've done that thing where you've taken lots of different ingredients that all should have an effect.
Speaker B:You made this thing.
Speaker B:I mean, your dad must have been over the moon after six weeks.
Speaker B:Like, it's like, you know, it's like Willy Wonka's Discover for chocolate.
Speaker B:Or something.
Speaker B:It's like it's worked like it's worked for my son.
Speaker B:This is almost identical to what he made all that time ago.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, correct.
Speaker B:So, so it could be what.
Speaker B:It's likely that some things are a bigger impact than others.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:The blend is the blend.
Speaker A:And obviously we know turmeric is, is a hero ingredient.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:And you know, the, the research behind turmeric as a natural ingredient supporting a wide array of various different health ailments.
Speaker A:You know, it's, it's.
Speaker A:There are thousands of clinical studies currently on turmeric as a health benefit.
Speaker A:So for us, the biggest thing was realizing that this product was beginning to have a positive impact on people's lives.
Speaker A:When we launched, you know, we then were receiving customer testimonials within four weeks of launching.
Speaker A:And I don't mean like, you know, this was, this product tastes great.
Speaker A:No, like I had arthritis in my fingers.
Speaker B:I was supposed to say arthritis is probably the classic.
Speaker B:Because arthritis is a natural body's inflammation reaction.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they, and, and many people would say it's what, they would say it's not a disease.
Speaker B:It's, you know, it's, it's the body's reaction to things, you know, so for arthritis, it must be fantastic.
Speaker A:Yeah, phenomenal.
Speaker A:And you know, every again, anything to do with inflammation.
Speaker A:A lot of the ailments we experience are simply due to inflammation.
Speaker B:Well, that's almost the modern point of view, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's like it's all information.
Speaker B:You know, so much problem is inflammation.
Speaker B:I mean, do you feel you must do after this experience that we have really lost touch with nature on a, on a medical level?
Speaker A:Completely.
Speaker A:I think obviously, you know, that there are, there are important benefits to, you know, the medicinal, you know, industry, you know, like healthcare as a establishment, as an industry, you know, and medicine aligned with that.
Speaker A:So there have been great strides taken which have improved the health of society.
Speaker A:However, the reliance on medicine, pharmaceutical drugs is now to a point where it's beginning to have a negative impact because it's all about, rather than looking at the problem itself and looking at preventative measures, which are typically lifestyle, nutrition, environment, you're then looking at how you can then treat.
Speaker A:So rather than preventative healthcare, you're looking at treatment based health care.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so treatment based health care is, you know, whether, whether you want to call it monopolized, whether you want to call it industry, they look at the.
Speaker B:Problem, they look at the knee and say, how do we fix the knee?
Speaker B:And we get out a spanner.
Speaker B:You know, the western medicine is always trying to treat the pain.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, you've got problems with your stomach, therefore we'll put you on proton pun inhibitors.
Speaker B:It's like, well actually maybe I should take less painkillers and drink less alcohol or whatever it is.
Speaker B:I mean you also natural, it's like you, you say, oh, oh, natural drugs don't do anything.
Speaker B:Well, you know, the poppy provides all of the painkiller except there's one other painkiller.
Speaker B:We use cocaine as a local natural.
Speaker B:It's the most effective local anesthetic and it's still used Novocaine.
Speaker B:And then, you know, it's sort of like actually at the core of medicine, if you look at the most used drugs, they're almost all natural.
Speaker B:You know, aspirin is natural, you know, so it's, it, I mean to me that's what sort of, it's not a criticism of western medicine in like it does amazing things.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It probably has ended up with a bit more of a treatment focus.
Speaker B:But you look at the history of it and there was this sort of golden period when we were suddenly like, oh, we can fix anything.
Speaker B:And I was just in the States and it's just incredible how they have a drug for everything.
Speaker B:Yours is a great story.
Speaker B:And you, you have the wearer, all the, the funds and the determination and clearly, clearly the calm and persistence to say, no, I'm, I'm gonna do this.
Speaker B:But I don't know how much you've got doctors on board, how much you say to a doctor, look at this.
Speaker B:They will, they will.
Speaker B:I know what they say, where's the clinical study?
Speaker B:And maybe that's what you're producing, is it?
Speaker C:You' study recently, right, that you're launching a campaign about this.
Speaker A:But we've, we've not, we've not done it, it's been done independently.
Speaker A:But the biggest thing for us was how do we build data around what anecdotally our customers are experiencing?
Speaker A:You know, so we've had over 10,000 like life changing customer testimonials of people who have used the product over a period of time and their ailment has reduced, you know, their, their life has improved.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because they, they've begun using our turmeric based shots.
Speaker A:And so we were like, this is quite strange, you know, that we're not a medicine, it's a food.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so, you know, the, the famous, you know, Pocrates quote was, you know, let food be thy medicine and medicine Be thy food.
Speaker A:Like, what you put into your body actually dictates the health that you experience, you know, so it's getting back to like source and saying like, actually what can you do from a nutritional perspective to improve your health?
Speaker A:And obviously our blend and our turmeric based shot range is one of the solutions to a lot of people's issues from a health perspective.
Speaker A:And so we were like, okay, we don't want to be a medicine because we're not, we're food.
Speaker A:We're clear on that.
Speaker A:But how can we actually build information around what our customers are experiencing?
Speaker A:So we began looking at a research partner and saying like, okay, well, can we partner with a university to run a clinical study on the product range?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Who did you partner with?
Speaker A:So we partnered with Nottingham Trent University, who are very forward thinking, you know, and are also aware that, you know, a lot of nutrition can have an impact on specific markers in the body.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And so we were then in a fortunate position where thousands of athletes use our product on a daily basis now.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And actually those athletes aren't our core market.
Speaker A:Our core market is, you know, middle aged individuals who are looking to improve their health naturally.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So however, obviously athletes are very aware of the fine margins of health.
Speaker A:So a lot of them are using the product consistently.
Speaker A:And we work with over 100 nutritionists who are also aware that nutrition plays a significant impact in terms of health, performance, wellness.
Speaker A:So we were able to leverage one of our, our elite sports partnerships with one of the professional football clubs that we partner with and we supply and we were able to facilitate this study which Nottingham Trent University ran and they basically ran a clinical study on 18 elite sports athletes and tracked the inflammation blood markers as well as the subjective muscle soreness, lower body and whole body.
Speaker B:While they were training, obviously while they.
Speaker A:Were playing in elite.
Speaker A:So it's like in itself, when you look at a cohort of, you know, individuals who have been studied, that in itself doing that on an elite group of sports athletes in season is groundbreaking in itself, let alone the findings of the study.
Speaker A:And you know, the findings of the study showed essentially a significant reduction in inflammation blood markers when using our product range versus not as well as a significant reduction in both muscle soreness, lower leg and whole body.
Speaker B:Are they on very healthy diets anyway, or elite sportsman eating a McDonald's.
Speaker A:So the thing is, so you would compare, okay, it's elite.
Speaker A:So you know, how does that correlate with the everyday person?
Speaker A:Yeah, but actually from an elite elite athlete's perspective, okay, they're going to be super healthy, but actually they're also putting their bodies through extreme inflammation all of the time because they're constantly pushing it.
Speaker A:They're constantly pushing it.
Speaker A:So, so it's a study where actually every single person is experiencing inflammation constantly.
Speaker B:And I was just thinking though, is their diet similar at all?
Speaker B:Or some of them like got bad diets and good diets.
Speaker C:But if they're all professional athletes, they'll all be on specific diets.
Speaker B:No, that's what I'm curious.
Speaker B:Are all professional athletes all on Good day?
Speaker B:It's not, it's not the good old days of smoking fags.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:But the thing is, is that when you actually then break down what's happening, okay, you're consuming nutrients and compounds, micronutrients, macronutrients, in the form of these raw ingredients within the blend.
Speaker A:Within an elite athlete, you would say, well actually their, their nutrition should be relatively good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Now when you look at the majority of say UK's population, like they are nutrient deficient, like their whole diet consists of, you know, typically ultra processed foods, you know, foods where there's a very little nutrient content, you know, high sugar content, which we're now seeing actually is a import, is, is a massive factor in creating and causing inflammation.
Speaker A:So you could say actually if you were to look at that study on elite athletes, the impact that the product range had on them, you could actually argue that it would be significantly more amplified in the everyday person, adding a shot to their consistent everyday routine.
Speaker A:And ultimately that's what we're seeing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, that's almost what I was curious about.
Speaker B:It's like, if you've got a bad diet, is it enough to help counter or is the bad diet just like gonna just overwhelm whatever sort of, you know, it's like when you have a salad after a burger to try and cheer yourself up, it's a sort of, you know, does it, does it make a difference or not?
Speaker B:And I mean, the other thing is how, which I think is always so fascinating is how different all our chemistry is.
Speaker B:You know, we all got different blood types, we all react differently.
Speaker B:I mean, I remember watching this amazing study when they made people eat 5, 000 calories a day and obviously almost everyone got fat.
Speaker B:But this one Asian guy, this Chinese guy, he just put on muscle and he just got more and more muscular and they were just pumping him full of.
Speaker B:He wasn't exercising and it was like, oh my God.
Speaker B:And they were trying to work it out.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, he's got a sort of predetermined genetics that basically he's always skinny.
Speaker B:You know, you get this sort of very slim Chinese who are always so slim.
Speaker B:I mean, within the study, you did, did you, did you notice something?
Speaker B:Everyone was taking the same out.
Speaker B:Was some people hugely different?
Speaker B:Were there any, were there any people who didn't have an effect?
Speaker B:Was it consistent through every single.
Speaker A:Consistent.
Speaker B:I mean, it's a, it's a small study still, but that's, that's very encouraging, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, you know, it was a, it was a pilot study in itself to, to line up for future studies.
Speaker A:And we've just, we've just had the results back from our second clinical study too, and that focused more on the immune immunotherapy side of the product and.
Speaker B:The, that helps your immune system as well.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker B:Anecdotally, what people you don't.
Speaker B:Didn't get sick in the summer and what, you know, so I, I probably should say the Rastas.
Speaker B:You know, I just have quite a lot of friends in that world and, and my sister's very sick, sadly died.
Speaker B:But we bought in all the Jamaican, the Rastafarian medicine and, you know, I work with her, you know, that it's similar.
Speaker B:It's these sort of similar ingredients, you know.
Speaker B:And what happens when you get a cold?
Speaker B:People make.
Speaker B:Get ginger, don't they?
Speaker B:You know, you get these sort of things and like you say you feel it on your throat.
Speaker B:I mean, there's some.
Speaker B:Something.
Speaker B:There's something actually quite obvious about it too.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, the way you, your body responds to it and there's a sort of certain power to things like ginger, you know.
Speaker B:Okay, so the second question is, can it make people's immune system stronger, basically?
Speaker A:Well, can it?
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:And you know the answer.
Speaker A:Well, we've got data now supporting that, you know, in terms of the impact of sick days due to respiratory symptoms versus obviously when using the range versus not is again significantly reduced.
Speaker C:I think he's saying.
Speaker C:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker B:Well, there's the, the graph of cancer.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:He was, you know, from.
Speaker B:They've just been releasing this in the press.
Speaker B: s ago and stuff, but from the: Speaker B:And, and they say, well, why, why does it suddenly go up there?
Speaker B: nd they say, well, in, in the: Speaker B:That's when, you know, fast food started.
Speaker B:There's where all these different things started and then it's getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse.
Speaker B:But it's, it's an epidemic, you know, and I think, you know, obviously cancer's one marker, but again, it's pointing to that.
Speaker B:Returning to when we used to cook everything.
Speaker B:What an amazing story.
Speaker B:I mean, from start to scratch, I think the bit that I really love is your dad and you going, you know, obviously, you know, when you say a breakdown, it's like it was so important to you at the time and it was so heartbreaking to you to have a physical ailment and, and that was holding you back from doing your dream, you know, but you can convert that in a different way.
Speaker B:As, you know, you see people with disabilities, people who can't walk or, you know, can't do basic stuff, and the frustration that that happens.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, one of my best friends just messed his back up, you know, and you know, he's been in bed now for two weeks, can't do anything.
Speaker B:And it's like the agony of those sort of experiences, as it were.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I think from, from, from my perspective, you know, sort of looking, looking in at what we've done, you know, we've produced, you know, millions of these shots now since launching, you know, ten tens of millions.
Speaker A:And the, the biggest thing that we're seeing within our customer base and within, you know, the, the society as we're seeing, you know, our communities come together around natural nutrition and the actual positive impact it can have is that the realization that, that your health is truly your most valuable asset.
Speaker A:And unfortunately, a lot of the time, particularly within, you know, the consumer driven material world that we live in, you know, that's only realized truly once it's too late, I.
Speaker A:E.
Speaker A:Once it's gone, you know, and so again, that saying, you know, your health is your wealth, it's, it's so true.
Speaker A:And I think for us, what we are beginning to see is a realization of that fact in society, particularly through our customer base.
Speaker A:You know, it's a serious, you know, it is a serious business.
Speaker A:Like people are genuinely taking positive life choices seriously.
Speaker A:You know, so they're like saying again, around processed foods, sugar industry, you know, juices, you know, you look at the majority of juices in the industry are, are pumped full of sugar and are processed to the point where the nutrient content of those juices is zero.
Speaker A:And it's basically sugar and water.
Speaker A:You know, there's juices on shelf by big brands, popular brands, where when you consume that juice, you May as well have just had a Coca Cola.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Don't feel good about it.
Speaker B:I mean part of it is the orange juice is very stable.
Speaker B:Like, like I worked with a watermelon juice company years ago and the problem with watermelon juice, it goes off, off really quick.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe as a blend.
Speaker B:You've, you've, you've, and you, you know, now you flash pasteurized, whatever.
Speaker B:But they had a watermelon product and I got addicted to it, but it only lasted 90, 90 days and that would took them a long time to work out how to do that.
Speaker B:But orange, orange juice and apple juice you mentioned, but particularly oranges are very stable juice as it were.
Speaker B:But this is what I've learned long ago.
Speaker B:Almost all of those health drinks, almost all of those smoothies and blends and everything, it's all, they're all the, all the nutrition is long gone.
Speaker B:And especially to be sitting the in the sun.
Speaker B:I mean at least Purdy's tries to put theirs in a sort of, you know, darkened bottles.
Speaker B:It were in glass.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Secondly, they've got their, they shouldn't be in plastic.
Speaker B:I mean are there, are there any of those, you know, because they've got the cold press.
Speaker B:I also read recently, cold press might be, but you know, you just feel overwhelmed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think it's, you know, understanding the mechanisms behind processing.
Speaker A:You know, so you can't pasteurize, you can't heat treat watermelon.
Speaker A:You know, you shouldn't really heat treat any drink.
Speaker A:But when you heat treat it.
Speaker A:I pasteurize it.
Speaker A:You're depleting the nutrition.
Speaker B:You put the top on, you heat it up.
Speaker A:Heat it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So you can heat it, kill everything and then it's cool.
Speaker A:And the reason why you're doing that is for shelf stability.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what you're doing there is you're extending a product's life from five days to potentially like five years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and ambient.
Speaker B:It's the same theory of the guy invented the can, you know, the canned food.
Speaker B:They suddenly worked out if you put it, if you seal a can and you stick it in boiling water, that it lasts for ages.
Speaker A:Precisely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And nutrition is less from cans and you can get poisoning from cans.
Speaker B:But it was still a revelation.
Speaker B:You, it fueled Napoleon's army and all that.
Speaker B:What's your shelf life then?
Speaker A:So the shelf life.
Speaker A:So we are hpp.
Speaker A:So it's high pressure processing.
Speaker A:So basically each one of our shots goes under X cubic pressure of water that creates heat no, no, no, completely cold.
Speaker A:So it basically pressurizes it reduces the log count of the microbes within the product.
Speaker A:So what that allows to do is rather than.
Speaker A:And a microbe basically causes mold, causes degradation, causes obviously the decay of the product.
Speaker A:So you reduce them to a minimum and then you then keep it cold throughout its shelf life.
Speaker A:And what you allow for it to then do is achieve a shelf life.
Speaker A:For us we achieve up to six to seven weeks chilled shelf life on our product now because of that process and that's a non evasive process and that's how we're able to lock in the nutrient content and keep that product as fresh as possible.
Speaker A:But while competing with, with the Coca Colas and the Pepsicos who deliver these juices which can stay on shelf for two and a half years.
Speaker A:Okay, well you know, you're never going to compete with the big boys if you've got a shelf life of five days.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, so it's the perfect medium for us.
Speaker B:Yeah, you've got to get past five days.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, you're at a point where it's just about possible by the time possible.
Speaker A:And it's very complex, very, you know.
Speaker B:Is that one of the most hard things?
Speaker A:Was it massive?
Speaker A:Yeah, massive in terms of, you know, know supply, demand forecasting and planning is like a constant, it's a constant battle particularly with raw fresh ingredients, you know, so it's all the work that has gone into delivering what we're doing if.
Speaker B:You ended up raising money.
Speaker A:So for us as a business we've been fully self funded.
Speaker A:What we did, we did a strategic investment round recently where we bought true strategic investors into the business.
Speaker A:And so you know that that's allowed us to get industry knowledge and industry expertise but also true business knowledge, true, true business expertise to the table.
Speaker A:And for us that was an important step because again obviously as a family run business like how do you compete with the big boys?
Speaker A:And for us, you know, our vision for this business and brand is to become our generation's Coca Cola.
Speaker C:So that's the long term goal of the business.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker B:Because Coca Cola was a health drink, you know.
Speaker B:And actually to be honest, I still wouldn't knock it occasionally, do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:It's not bad on a hangover and.
Speaker A:Coca Cola has its look.
Speaker A:Coca Cola is all about fun.
Speaker A:You know, everyone remembers the adverts, you know, whether it was a Christmas advert or a summer fit.
Speaker A:Some of the advert this was all like deep, this was deep, subliminal, like Psychological, not warfare.
Speaker A:But they knew what they were doing, okay?
Speaker A:So they were programming, okay.
Speaker A:And they were able to program a generation towards happiness in consumption.
Speaker A:Now what if a brand and a product was able to do that, that towards health and actually deliver on that?
Speaker A:And so for us, we genuinely feel we have a unique opportunity to do that with the Turmeric Co.
Speaker A:Because fundamentally Turmeric Co has been used for millennia.
Speaker A:This isn't a.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, a flash in the pan product ingredient that comes and goes like.
Speaker A:No, this was being used long before any of us came and it will be used long before, long after we're gone as well.
Speaker A:So we're very conscious that, that if we can continue to deliver the quality of the product that we're delivering, we will continue to impact more and more people and allow for a positive shift in society towards health.
Speaker C:Have there been any fuck ups along the way or has it been a perfect ride of everything going exactly right?
Speaker A:Yeah, we fuck up every day.
Speaker A:That's part of the process.
Speaker A:But it's about how you react to that, you know, so every single day there's a challenge, there's an issue.
Speaker A:But actually a lot of the time, you know, those challenges and issues are opportunities and if you can approach them in that way, you know, it's, it's a mechanism for improvement, development, you know, and there's a lot of areas, again we're, we're into manufacturing and you know, so there's lots of different modes and models of manufacture and you know, when you look at for example, Lean Manufacturing, you know, Six Sigma, Lean Six Sigma.
Speaker B:It'S like what is Lean Six Sigma?
Speaker A:You know, so Lean Six Sigma is all about how you can, can continually improve, continuous improvement, you know, and through that you allow.
Speaker B:That sounds like the Toyota system.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:Okay, correct, exactly, yeah, very, very aligned.
Speaker A:So all, all of very similar methodology.
Speaker B:And so it's very sports too, isn't it?
Speaker B:Sort of the, the Ministry of Micro Adjustments.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:You know, so and so when, when you look at that, for us, it, taking that approach towards what we've done has, has really allowed us to, as I said, you know, deliver something no other brand and no other business is doing at this moment in time.
Speaker A:When you look at all of the brands who are on shelf today, none of them are manufacturers.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:It's amazing to hear you manufacture yourselves sort of thing.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker A:But, but the majority of their products are actually manufactured.
Speaker A:Like you've got two different brands, they're both made from the same manufacturer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's honestly, it's mind blowing stuff when you actually realize and actually when you see it, you know, we've been to factories, all pairs of glasses.
Speaker B:Buses come from the same place.
Speaker B:Pretty much Luxottica.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:When you find that out, you're like, what, all of them?
Speaker B:And it's like crazy much.
Speaker B:You know, try and buy sports shoes that aren't made in China, it's like, you know, it's, it's all made in the same factories.
Speaker B:Are you just in the UK at the moment?
Speaker B:Are you going to do Germany would be the obvious, wouldn't it, with their health mad.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, we're just in the uk, we've, we've just, you know, obviously.
Speaker A:Well, we've forayed now into retail.
Speaker A:You know, we've, we launched into Sainsbury's recently and you know, within two weeks of launching we've, we were the highest selling new product listed that they had.
Speaker A:They had listed.
Speaker A:So it shows, you know, the awareness is really growing and people are looking for a benefit.
Speaker A:And as I said, you know, online we've serviced over 100,000 customers.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we've got a big database of customers who are making, as I said, you know, those conscious, positive decisions towards health.
Speaker A:Health.
Speaker A:And so with that, you know, we, we did a lot of research, you know, we spoke to a lot of our customers and we have got, you know, big data sets which show that consumers are not only waking up around nutrition and health and the importance of it, but when looking within this category, they're truly only purchasing products for one of four reasons.
Speaker A:And so for us, if a product isn't servicing one of those four reasons of purchase, you're basically like losing the opportunity to make a difference to that person's life.
Speaker A:So you're going to have higher rates of churn, you're going to have higher rates of dissatisfaction.
Speaker A:And ultimately, when you look at the category generally, unfortunately the majority of products in this category don't service those core needs.
Speaker B:What are the four, the four needs?
Speaker B:This is for drinks, is it?
Speaker A:No, for functional beverages.
Speaker A:So the four key reasons of purchase within the functional beverage category.
Speaker A:3.
Speaker A:First, one biggest one is pain relief.
Speaker B:Is it really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:What are they drinking for?
Speaker B:What's your competitor other than you?
Speaker B:Oh, you're so.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of benefits of ginger.
Speaker A:There's a lot of benefits around, you know, even there's so many functional beverages out there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So people are looking within this category for benefits of pain relief, immunity, support.
Speaker A:So Again, immunity support, you know, not getting sick.
Speaker A:You know, I want to lead a normal life without having so many saying.
Speaker B:Oh, this has got vitamin.
Speaker B:Vitamin C in it, which supports your immune system itself.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:But, you know, it's fortified with vitamin C.
Speaker A:And actually the vitamin C isn't, again, in an absorbable format in the majority of the products.
Speaker A:Third one is energy, what you listed.
Speaker A:And then the fourth one is performance.
Speaker A:And performance could be your weekend warrior.
Speaker A:You know, it could be walking the dog.
Speaker A:You know, it could be literally like.
Speaker A:It's not about elite performance.
Speaker A:It's about those people who want to perform in their life.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So those are the four reasons for purchase within the functional beverage, slash food category.
Speaker B:And you said number one is the most important.
Speaker A:Number one is the pain relief.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I think it's amazing how the world's changed, you know.
Speaker B:You know, being 45, my generation, to be a man.
Speaker B:Nothing about being strong or fit.
Speaker B:It was just about mental strength and how up you could get, really.
Speaker B:It's a sort of, you know, and how it's shifted now.
Speaker B:You know, young people in the firm, you know, it's nutrition.
Speaker B:I'm picking men because it's almost more stark to me, you know, that I think.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think women are always a little more conscious, if I can make that sexist judgment.
Speaker B:And men just seem so much more like health gym, you know, and we get the manual out, don't we?
Speaker B:We like to be very sort of like, you know, nutrition of value.
Speaker B:You obviously ran a very effective social media campaign.
Speaker B:It's all about social media now.
Speaker B:And it's so nice to hear the story direct and the amazing impact it was happening on you, you doing the manufacturing yourself, you know, the thought that's gone into that.
Speaker B:But all that stuff we're talking about how it's all in a fucking blend and it doesn't work anymore.
Speaker B:I remember thinking to myself, I bet it's all bullshit.
Speaker B:I bet.
Speaker B:I bet if I really wanted to use turmeric, I better go and get some turmeric and do it fresh every day, if that's what I'm.
Speaker B:And I'm not gonna do that sort of thing.
Speaker B:So, I mean, I don't know whether.
Speaker B:Whether you want to respond to that.
Speaker B:I mean, social media is just such a strange place, but.
Speaker B:So you obviously ran a huge social media campaign.
Speaker B:That's where you got your 100,000 subscribers from, was it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So to be honest, there's a lot of organic growth that we've experienced of you Know, people, word of mouth.
Speaker C:Part of it was that you were, you know, a premier footballer.
Speaker C:Did that help?
Speaker A:To be honest, like, and he's saying, like, there's a lot of.
Speaker A:There's a lot of really bad products out there.
Speaker A:And, you know, we've only been able to run a successful business because the product actually works.
Speaker B:That's the second bit that's tricky, is that I used it for months and it's like, am I feeling better?
Speaker B:Look, I have periods where I drink too much.
Speaker B:I have periods where I'm better.
Speaker B:You know, I have times when I'm very stressed.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:Yeah, I got you.
Speaker B:We go up and down.
Speaker B:So I remember saying to myself, well, I mean, if you've got something very specific, like a physical injury that suddenly, like, alleviated.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, but, you know, but I.
Speaker A:Would say, you know, I would argue to you is like, you know, what was your reason for consumption?
Speaker B:Gut pain.
Speaker B:But, you know, also when you start being good, you tend to do multiple things, which doesn't.
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker A:But also in.
Speaker A:In that, like, a lot of the time I think being conscious of your body is really important.
Speaker A:And a lot of people genuinely aren't conscious of their body.
Speaker A:And like you said, you know, know if you.
Speaker A:If you move the metrics and the dials, you know, less fast food, you know, less alcohol, you know, more salads, you know, a turmeric shot.
Speaker A:And if you're doing that constantly, all of the time, which I feel like that's how you would be living your life, you're then the handle in barometer and you know, the metrics that you're running, where you never know.
Speaker A:So I would argue that you 100 would have expected.
Speaker A:Experienced a benefit from using our product for however many months.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:You know, I'm in, I'm going.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But my point is, My point is, is that you weren't conscious enough.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:To acknowledge the impact that it had.
Speaker A:And so obviously as an athlete, like, I was hyper conscious of my body.
Speaker A:I had to be.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So I was very aware of what would, you know, if I had alcohol, you know, that would have a significant degradation on my recovery, on my, you know, immune system, on everything.
Speaker A:I'd feel it.
Speaker A:Do you drink now?
Speaker A:Not so much.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Y.
Speaker A:So even finishing, you know, you.
Speaker A:There's the opportunity to drink a lot.
Speaker A:But, you know, I'll.
Speaker A:I'll have a nice glass of wine.
Speaker A:You know, red wine's really good with some good quality meat, et cetera.
Speaker A:Obviously, if I'm going out with Friends, I'm not opposed to drinking.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Actually, I'm conscious of the impact it has on me.
Speaker A:And a lot of people become unconscious because they're so numb to, you know, that side of the life.
Speaker A:Like, it's just not really thought about.
Speaker B:We'll also, also, frankly, it's boring.
Speaker B:I mean, like, you know, my dear dog, you know, they tell you should only feed it dry food.
Speaker B:And eventually dogs will just eat dry food.
Speaker B:But it's boring.
Speaker B:You know, you can tell he prefers not to, and they'll say, well, he'll live longer.
Speaker B:And like, you know, you know, it'll feel.
Speaker B:We'd all live longer if we all ate dry food all the time.
Speaker B:You know, it's a very.
Speaker B:Life's a very strange place like that.
Speaker B:You can live, you can live healthy and the bus hits you anyway.
Speaker B:So I think this.
Speaker B:You obviously incredibly, you know, in control.
Speaker A:Control.
Speaker B:And you've had to, you've had to professionally.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You had something that you really wanted to do, you know, and you, you've got.
Speaker B:You've obviously been, you know, for whatever reason, got fantastic discipline and things.
Speaker B:But they're difficult choices in life, aren't they?
Speaker B:You know, health is everything, but you got to live.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm drawing those lines.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker A:It's not easy, but it's the convenience of it as well, you know, so when you're looking to have, you know, if you're looking to make change in your life, like you want to do things that you're not.
Speaker A:Not that aren't impacting your life in a negative way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I think, again, that's one of the reasons why we, we are being so successful is because it's so convenient for people.
Speaker A:It's not really an issue.
Speaker A:You know, you get it delivered straight to your house.
Speaker B:It better if you take it first thing in the morning.
Speaker A:First thing in the morning.
Speaker A:A lot of our customers will say that they know it's a big impact, taking it first thing in the morning.
Speaker A:But for us, it's like, you know, even down to, you know, mentioned a small bottles recycling returns initiative.
Speaker A:You know, every single one of our customers can return all of their bottles free of charge, you know, back to us with their next door.
Speaker A:Like, it's like.
Speaker A:So that whole convenience element, like, we've really thought it out and mapped out.
Speaker A:And I think when it comes to nutrition, health, wellness, there are so many options out there.
Speaker A:But fundamentally, like I said, the first thing, if you're going to try and make a positive conscious decision in your life.
Speaker A:Like be aware of what you're.
Speaker A:Your experiencing of what you're looking to change and then, you know, try it.
Speaker A:Like if it does then work for you, like then you will know if you are conscious and aware of it.
Speaker A:If it doesn't, then you will also know.
Speaker B:And now a quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker B:Business without is brought to you by Ori Clark.
Speaker B: ancial and legal advice since: Speaker B:You can find us@uticlark.com Ori is spelled O U R Y.
Speaker B:Before we press on, just a quick reminder to come say hi on whatever social platform you like.
Speaker B:We're pretty much on all of them.
Speaker B:Just search for wblondon.
Speaker B:What do you think is in this industry, in this functional drinks industry?
Speaker A:I would say the majority of lot of juices and products and supplements are.
Speaker A:Yeah, major.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Like severe.
Speaker B:It's amazing.
Speaker B:We don't know that because someone told me it's a long time ago who made juices and smooth said they're all, it doesn't work.
Speaker B:None of them got information in people.
Speaker C:Making the juices and smoothies, advertising them so that you'll buy them and drink them.
Speaker C:So they're not going to tell you that.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you could change the regulation.
Speaker B:Easy to say.
Speaker B:It's not what you put in it, it's what's in it when you buy it.
Speaker B:Because there is rules in some countries you've got to put in what is it when you buy it because sometimes you put ingredients in.
Speaker B:I had this in cosmetics and stuff.
Speaker B:I had some cosmetic businesses.
Speaker B:Like they actually, things happen to them so they become other things, you know, what do you think they should do about it?
Speaker A:I think it's the consumer world that we live in.
Speaker A:I think, you know, it's very hard to regulate that.
Speaker A:I think when you look at a lot of the big, big food players, you know, they've got big monopolies, like big, big monopolies.
Speaker A:And I think fundamentally, as I said, like we're, we're in a time of change.
Speaker A:We're in a time of, you know, know, the time that we've lived in.
Speaker A:You know, there's never been a time like now, you know, in terms of information exchange, as I said, you know, the, the developments that are happening, the knowledge transfer that's happening all over the globe.
Speaker A:And so I think fundamentally what we'll see is there's going to be a shift and there's going to be people and we see, we're seeing it in numbers.
Speaker A:We're seeing it in data, we're seeing it in consumer like, like a lot of the juice businesses and brands, like they're in decline.
Speaker B:Which ones aren't though?
Speaker B:What can I buy?
Speaker B:That's not.
Speaker B:You'd have to name the brand.
Speaker C:There's this one called Turmeric.
Speaker A:Apart from the Turmeric Co, you know, range, like, obviously, you know that that's a very unique range.
Speaker A:But it's, it, there's not distribution of that anywhere everywhere.
Speaker A:And so for us, like if I look at the drinks market, I think, you know, having freshly pressed juices is.
Speaker A:Is important if you're going to look for a juice.
Speaker C:Have you come across Plenish?
Speaker B:Plenish?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Is that a good one?
Speaker B:Is it?
Speaker C:They're cold pressed.
Speaker C:Plenish.
Speaker A:Plenish juices are a decent juice.
Speaker A:They're owned by Britvic.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker A:Which is one of the, you know.
Speaker C:I did the transaction.
Speaker A:Big boys.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Okay, nice.
Speaker C:But before that they were owned by a founder who founded the business and grew.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was.
Speaker A:I would say, look, so there is juices out there.
Speaker A:You know, Sainsbury's actually do a juice range which is good.
Speaker A:Fresh juice range.
Speaker B:But when you say fresh juice to my brain's game, if there's not people behind the arm and you know, pulling the orange.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Essentially that's what you want to be looking for.
Speaker A:As close to that as possible.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I see.
Speaker B:It's in the milk aisle almost.
Speaker B:It's like this thing's going to last a week.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:And then I would say genuinely beyond that, just have a Coca Cola.
Speaker B:Enjoy it.
Speaker A:Because every other juice out there is highly processed, full of sugar.
Speaker C:If you're going to have Tropicana, it's owned by Pepsi.
Speaker C:If you're going to have Innocent, it's owned by buy Coke.
Speaker A:So just have a Coca Cola and enjoy it.
Speaker A:You know that, that feeling, that emotional state that it gives you.
Speaker A:But in terms of that emotional state, like I was fortunate enough, you know, when big food.
Speaker A:Now I've had some interesting discussions with, you know, some senior members within the food industry and an ex Coke director spoke to me about a marketing campaign, which was a generational marketing campaign to infiltrate Coca Cola throughout Africa.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And this was back in the early 70s and the plan was to have a Coke bottle, bottles at a time in the hand consumed by every single child in Africa on a daily basis.
Speaker A: By: Speaker A:And so when you talk about subliminal messaging Holidays are coming.
Speaker A:Holiday.
Speaker A:That's not like this.
Speaker A:You've been programmed.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And the fascinating thing is, is if you were actually, if someone now was to launch a brand called Coca Cola and deliver the ingredient makeup that is in a Coke, it would have to close within 12 months of operating because no one would buy it.
Speaker A:No one.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So this is the fascinating thing about consumer psychology.
Speaker A:And so they've, as I said for that, for that generation, they've nailed it.
Speaker A:But consumers patterns are changing and that's why they've had to acquire the likes of Innocence Smoothies.
Speaker C:Well they, they acquired, they were very clear about why they acquired Innocent, which was.
Speaker C:They had Minute Maid, they hadn't, which wasn't a brand that matched Tropicana and they needed an orange juice.
Speaker C:They didn't acquire Innocent for the smoothies, they acquired it.
Speaker A:But as soon as that happens, you know, they're the big wigs come into the business and then process the product.
Speaker B:Have you watched Mad Men?
Speaker B:I always find Mad Men a fascinating series because that's not.
Speaker B:It's the one about the advertising executives in the 60s and they're all alcoholics.
Speaker C:That is really good summary of exactly what it is.
Speaker B:And they were all in the second World War.
Speaker B:You suddenly realized all these people were in the front and stuff in France.
Speaker B:That's why they're drinking like fish.
Speaker B:But they're the ones who come up with all.
Speaker B:They have loads of them in the program about how do we sell this thing?
Speaker B:And it's this psychological manipulation.
Speaker B:Anyway, we'll move on.
Speaker B:It's been really interesting, man.
Speaker B:You got a laser focus.
Speaker B:It's nice to see, you know, change the world.
Speaker B:Do it, do it it, you know, change my life, hopefully.
Speaker B:This is 10 second quick far round.
Speaker B:This is sort of get to know quick questions, 10 second answers, please.
Speaker B:DQ the music.
Speaker C:Favorite subject at school, Math.
Speaker B:O.
Speaker B:What's your special skill?
Speaker A:My unique ability is.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I'm, I'm pretty good at football.
Speaker A:Pretty good at football?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'd say I, I, I can make things happen.
Speaker A:Happen.
Speaker B:You can make things happen?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The Focus Manifesto.
Speaker B:You're a manifesto.
Speaker B:I hate the word but I like, I like the concepts.
Speaker B:You know it once you make you punch yourself in your American face.
Speaker B:But it's a great concept.
Speaker C:What did you want to be when you grew up?
Speaker A:Footballer.
Speaker B:Jesus Christ.
Speaker B:For you.
Speaker B:Let me fill this in for you.
Speaker B:What did your parents want you to be?
Speaker A:They wanted me to be a pediatrician.
Speaker C:Well, that's very specific.
Speaker B:Pediatrician's health isn't it?
Speaker B:Or is it kids?
Speaker A:Children's children's kids.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I always mix it up with the other one.
Speaker C:Doctor.
Speaker C:Children's doctor.
Speaker C:What's your go to karaoke song?
Speaker A:Go to karaoke song is probably Aerosmith.
Speaker A:I don't want to miss a thing.
Speaker C:Oh, my goodness me.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:That has changed.
Speaker A:That's changed.
Speaker C:What's the film.
Speaker C:What's the film with the them where they have to knock a meteor off it?
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Liv Tyler.
Speaker C:Liv Tyler and Ben Affleck.
Speaker A:Ben Affleck and Bruce Willis.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, they sing that song in that.
Speaker B:Do they?
Speaker C:They do.
Speaker A:That's correct.
Speaker B:Office dogs.
Speaker B:Business or.
Speaker A:No, no, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm all for that.
Speaker A:Not, not.
Speaker A:Not in food manufacturing.
Speaker B:Not in a manufacturing facility.
Speaker C:Have you ever been fired?
Speaker A:Have I been fired?
Speaker A:Well, in football you get fired every.
Speaker A:Every other way.
Speaker A:If you lose a game, you get fired basically from the.
Speaker A:From the team.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Multiple times.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What's your vice now?
Speaker B:This one.
Speaker A:I'm gonna love my vice.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:My advice, I think, as I said, I think as much as, you know, I enjoy post improvements, like you said, sometimes it's just nice to, you know, you would cheat.
Speaker A:Just chill and relax and, you know, sort of not be being, you know, you always want to be impeccable and improve, etc.
Speaker A:But sometimes that actually is difficult to maintain at the same time.
Speaker A:So actually it kind of annoys a lot of people because they're just like me to just.
Speaker C:So it's a vice in itself.
Speaker A:So it's a vice.
Speaker A:Yeah, but not necessarily for me because I absolutely love it.
Speaker C:Seeking permanent perfection is a vice.
Speaker B:Seeking perfection.
Speaker B:What your brother and sister must hit you over their head.
Speaker B:Head with.
Speaker B:With their sandwiches.
Speaker A:Perfection.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:Not perfection.
Speaker A:Impeccability.
Speaker A:So, you know, perfection.
Speaker A:When you have perfection, you can't grow anymore.
Speaker A:So if you're perfect when you can't grow, the only next step is to die.
Speaker A:So impeccability is actually giving your best in all situations, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Nice recommendations of things to read.
Speaker B:Watch.
Speaker A:Listen to a book that I read as a teenager was Psycho Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz, Psychoanalytics.
Speaker B:Wow, that sounds like fiction.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:So very much reality in terms of, you know, it was my first foray into mind and it helps you realize that actually everything is mind.
Speaker B:Do you believe that consciousness creates stuff?
Speaker B:You know, there's the sort of theories about, you know, consciousness is this creative thing that was manifesting that literally can create stuff.
Speaker B:Would you go that far with it.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker B:It's like you can give yourself cancer by thinking bad thoughts and you can.
Speaker B:You can heal things by thinking.
Speaker B:I mean, these are extreme, but just.
Speaker A:To illustrate the point.
Speaker C:Extreme and also bollocks.
Speaker A:Well, they are.
Speaker B:Would say not.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:A lot of people would say not.
Speaker A:Like, I think the mind is.
Speaker A:Is a very powerful tool.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Did you want to just do your thing, tell us why this.
Speaker B:We should buy this amazing product?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, I think from my perspective, launching the Turmeric Co has been an incredible journey.
Speaker A:You know, being able to support the lives of a lot of people through natural nutrition is fundamentally our driver and why we do what we do.
Speaker A:So, yeah, the Turmeric Co can be found online, the Turmeric Co can be found in Sainsbury's.
Speaker A:And, yeah, our socials are always on at the Turmeric Co.
Speaker A:So, yeah, thank you.
Speaker A:Brilliant.
Speaker B:Brilliant, Thomas.
Speaker B:You've been absolutely wonderful.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:What a vision and what a story.
Speaker B:So there you have it.
Speaker B:That was this week's episode of Business Without.
Speaker B:Thank you, Thomas.
Speaker B:Thank you, Pippa.
Speaker B:Thank you, Dee.
Speaker B:And we'll be back with our quiz Business, all on Thursday.
Speaker B:Until then, it's ciao.
